Build a large and diverse audience with an email newsletter with Maria Gharib

Email newsletters are all the rage these days, with some popular publications having hundreds of thousands of engaged subscribers. I've been learning a lot more about newsletters lately, and was especially curious about how successful newsletters think about and go about attracting and retaining a diverse audience. So in this episode, I sat down with Maria Gharib, one of the primary writers of the Mindstream AI newsletter, which is fast, fast, fast, fast, fast growing, and already has an impressive subscriber base.

So after this short break, you'll hear my chat with Maria, all about building an email newsletter that attracts and retains a bigger, more diverse and fiercely loyal audience. It takes a lot to grow your business, a lot of audience attracting, a lot of lead scoring, and all the channel managing you can manage. Plus a lot of long days, late nights and weekends, a lot of wishing there was an easier way.

But with Breeze, HubSpot's new collection of AI tools, it's easier than ever for marketers to attract audiences, increase leads and score customers fast. Which means pretty soon, your company will have a lot to celebrate. Visit hubspot.com/marketers to learn more.

Sonia: Hey Maria thanks so much for joining us today. How are you?

Maria: I'm doing amazing. How have you been?

I've been good. I'm so excited about this chat today. 

Sonia: But before we get too far into it, tell the people who are you and what do you do?

Yeah. So hi everyone. My name is Maria Gharib.

Maria: I'm a Lebanese born and raised, and I just recently moved to the UK. I am the writer of the newsletter Mindstream. It's an AI newsletter that talks about everything that has to do with AI.

And we recently got acquired by HubSpot, and I've been kind of like uprooting my life from, you know, from zero. So yeah, nice to meet you. Nice to meet everyone.

I'm so excited to be on this pod.

Sonia: Yeah. Well, we're excited to have you and to dig into what is a really hot topic, as you know, given how it's impacted all your life in such a way. Email newsletters, they are all the rage these days.

Everyone seems to be talking about them. Everyone seems to be subscribing to them. They're really wonderful revenue streams and businesses that provide a lot of value.

What is it  about newsletters from your perspective that is so attractive to consumers?

Maria: Ever since I started in this industry, I was really surprised by how many people actually read newsletters. People have this weird perspective over it, that not everyone opens their emails. Everyone opens their emails because of how often we are on our phones, you know.

 

You don't have to open your email on your laptop. So newsletters kind of cut through the noise in general. And right now, we're all kind of drowning in a lot of information and new sites and like social media.

There's a lot of AI generated content, a lot of stuff, you name it. So a good newsletter generally is more of a personal filter of it all. It cuts through the chaos and it is curated, it's direct and gives people just enough to be informed without feeling a bit overwhelmed and bombarded by all the news out there.

So what makes a newsletter really stand out, I guess, is the voice. Every person that writes a newsletter, on the inside, they feel like a journalist. Some of them are journalists, some of them aren't, but the art of journalism is there.

I come from a political background, like I did international affairs as my bachelor degree, and I have a master's in diplomacy, international security, and living in Lebanon in general, gives me the opportunity to talk about a lot of stuff, especially since I come from that background. So it has given me a crutch for me, like not a crutch, but more of a whole prerequisite to start my career in marketing, and it's been helping a lot. And as I said, what makes a newsletter really stand out right now is the voice.

So like my voice, the person is kind of like writing it, any person that is writing a newsletter, their perspective, everything. So people don't really just want facts, they want a perspective. The best news that are out there feels like an actual conversation that you're having with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

Like, you know, and not just another automated content dump.

Sonia: Yeah, I love so much of what you said. And it's really resonating with me because I'm like, yeah, that is true. There is a lot of information.

And if you are on social media, you have like a bit of a burden to figure out like, what is relevant? And now I have to figure out like, is it actually true? So I'm finding myself going to fact check it. And that's time consuming. 

As you said, it's overwhelming. So I would much rather prefer on specific topics from someone that I trust to, like you said, curate, what is the things that's most important to have a voice that I like and that I'm familiar with, that feels like a friend, like you said, and that they're giving me like, what does this mean? So just kind of letting me know.

Giving you what you really need, right? Rather than just a content dump. It's like no one really wants that.

Yeah. And I love that you're making that distinction. It is not a content dump.

It is really like a friend telling you, all right, Sonia, this is what you need to know. And yeah, so I love that. Okay.

So from your perspective, what is the state of inclusion as it relates to newsletters? Do you find that they're taking an inclusive approach, or is it just they're just focusing on the content and not really thinking about the diversity of the people that they're serving?

Maria: Right. So I think when it comes to inclusion, I would think that it's getting better, it's improving, but very slowly. I'm not going to lie.

It's not happening like this. It's happening on a very slow pace. Because a lot of brands out there want to be inclusive, but you can always tell when it's just for show and what's being forced.

So true inclusion in newsletters usually mean that not just featuring a diverse voice, but actually just shaping the content around different experiences and perspectives. So that means who's writing, how stories are being told, and who's being centered around in general. So otherwise, if you're not doing it, it's just the same story being repackaged with a diversity bow on top.

No one really wants that. So it's not about diversity for the sake of diversity. While diversity, it's making sure your content actually reflects the world and not just some corner of it, like some kind of shelf on it.

Sonia: Yeah. I really like that because it's not like you said, it's not just about making sure the staff is diverse. The last time we were chatting, you mentioned that one of the things that you like to do is take a Gen Z approach to the headlines and the storytelling.

And I just found that super interesting because we don't necessarily think about that, but that does very much form the perspective of the tone and the voice. And also, it just provides another layer of inclusion because Gen Z of course is like increasing in the population, etc. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Was that a very intentional choice for you?

Maria: It wasn't intentional, 100 percent. I am a millennial, but I would rather say I'm a late millennial. I was born in 1995.

But ever since we were kids, when we want to look up to other people, we want to look at early millennials and they usually don't bring us in the conversation all the time, because they're the cool kids and we're just in the background. So Gen Z are proving that they are everywhere. Sometimes I would gain a lot of information, a lot of experience from a Gen Z.

My sister is a Gen Z. I've gained so many skills from her. And you need to reach out to that generation because they're building right now the structure for the next generations.

And a lot of stuff are happening. And with AI, because of how advanced it is, we're seeing the future happening in front of our eyes. I don't know if you've noticed, but everything has been happening, kind of accelerated.

And the people that are watching this right now are Gen Z. So you need to reach out to them. And you need to make sure that they understand you in a certain aspect, rather than just pull in some fluff words and big dictionary words that they're not gonna understand.

You need them to relate to everything and understand the humor, et cetera.

Sonia: Yeah, okay. So Mindstream has more than 150,000 subscribers. Is that number correct? Like the most recent number?

Maria: Actually, no, we reached 200K.

Sonia: Hey, congratulations. All right, so you will have more than 200,000 subscribers. That is amazing.

And in less than two years, right? Now you mentioned that you take a Gen Z tone with the content, but I imagine that of these more than 200,000 people, they are not all Gen Z. So what have been some of your keys to attracting such a diverse, attracting and retaining because they're sticking around, right?

Such a diverse audience, I mean, because they're around the globe, they're different genders, different ages, generations, etc. What has been your key to finding that sweet spot that keeps all of these people with different identities coming to you?

Maria: Yeah. So I need to, I didn't mention it in the introduction, but I'd like to kind of like mention it by now. Mindstream is an AI newsletter, and what we do is trying to break down AI news out there and make them as digestible as possible, making sure that it is not bugs and bugs of paragraphs and AI kind of curated content, just slapping it on a newsletter.

It's written by us as humans, and by me and my colleague, Matthew. What we do is making sure that it's understandable, it reaches right people. I think reaching 200K as a newsletter company has been monumental for all of us, including my colleagues, and it's been just absolutely a wild ride.

But honestly, we make AI feel accessible. So we wanted to make, we wanted to sound, we wanted to sound human. So a lot of AI content is either way too technical or way too doomsday.

You know, like, you know, armageddon is happening tomorrow, AI is going to replace us. So this is what we keep on hearing. And we don't want people to feel this kind of fear when it comes to AI.

So because it feels overwhelming sometimes, you know, no one really wants to hear that. So in a context, we strike a balance. We break things down in a way that is clear and fun and actually useful.

And you know, no AI fear mongering, no overhyped buzzwords, just actual insights and real insights. And of course, at the end of the day, we need consistency, you know, we just make sure that it's consistent as much as possible. So when people subscribe, they subscribe because they trust us to deliver valuable insights every single week, every single day.

And, but, you know, honestly, more than that, we've always made space to a different perspective. And AI just, it's not like, you know, an American or European conversation. It is global.

It's like the whole planet is talking about it, not just specific places in the world. So by covering, we try to cover stories from different regions and industries, and we attract a diverse readership because we actually write for them. So that trust is what keeps them obviously coming.

And we get feedback from a lot of people from different ages and different backgrounds, and they really want to get like an AI literacy to make sure they understand, because they really want to be up to date to every single AI innovation. And so that's what we do.

Sonia: So you just said something that kind of sparked my, piqued my ears. You said that they love the newsletter because we write for them, the different backgrounds. And is that really writing for them from the perspective of the different types of topics that you cover?

Of course, they're all AI related, but are there different angles that you would say that you cover that are relevant to different types of people? So for instance, one of the things that we hear a lot about AI, particularly from whenever I'm thinking about it in my world from a business perspective, we're talking about some of the biases that can exist within AI from a cultural perspective, from a gender perspective, et cetera. 

So I don't necessarily see a lot of mainstream outlets talking about those biases unless they're like super egregious from, like for instance, that Barbie movie, Barbie from Every Country, whenever AI, I don't know if you remember that article that they did.

And it was just super stereotypical and inaccurate. Right? But we don't necessarily hear, and that's just one example of some of the challenges with AI, even though it's gotten a lot better.

And for me, hearing something like that from a particular organization or news newsletter outlet, that would be beneficial because I'm like, ooh, they get it, right? Like they get that there's so many different topics and angles, but I'm one person, right? So is that something that you all are working to really have a pulse on what are the different types of topics that speak to different people and different angles that might not be covered from a mainstream sort of perspective?

Maria: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So some of the times, a lot of really, some of the weird stuff really attract people. We would write anything about AI policy and it would attract a specific, you know, kind of like group of people that really want to understand what is being allowed and what is not being allowed.

You know, there are some aspects of people, like graphic designers really want to understand what's happening in the latest when it comes to mid-journey, when it comes to co-pilot, when it comes to these kinds of tools. So we try to make sure that we gather as much information that would cover everything and every single day it's just, let's say we talk about GROK, the latest when it comes to X or we talk about what the EU has come up with in terms of policies and what comes to AI rules and stuff and what the UK is doing right now. So everyone has their own interests when it comes to that kind of stuff.

So we try to make sure that it fits everyone, not just a specific kind of group of people.

Sonia: What I hear you say and I love it, this nuance because we're thinking about more than 200,000 people. They're all interested in AI, but there's so many different topics and like you said, there's a technical, there's going to be people who are thinking about it from a content creation standpoint. There are going to be people thinking about it from, like you said, purely from a graphic design and their needs and ideas and what's important to them are very different.

So you all as the newsletter creators, it's important to you to have that understanding of like, who are the different people and identities, and identities of course go much broader than race, gender, age, etc. Like it runs the gamut.

Maria: It kind of sees through it, you know, like it's not specific to a certain kind of thing. It's just everyone, everyone gets a piece of something.

Sonia: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Are there any particular, aside from like making sure that you're speaking to the different identities that are reading your newsletter, because you all are daily, so you have a lot of opportunities to make people feel seen and to cover the topics that are relevant to them. Are there any other retention strategies that you all have picked up that have helped you keep people interested over time, especially that such a broad diversity of people?

Maria: Yeah, so generally, the key is making sure that everyone sees themselves, obviously, in the content. But if the newsletter feels like it's talking at you instead of to you, you're going to head on unsubscribe real fast. It's going to be like instant, like, I don't like this, goodbye.

I don't want you to waste my time, kind of, you know. So keep the tone as approachable as much as possible, as I mentioned. And we highlight a mix of like AI stories from different industries and regions, and keep things as practical as much as possible.

So because we've been seeing a lot of newsletters out there get way too academic, and some get way too clickbaity, and like, no one really wants that. No one really wants to have like a Miriam Webster next to them opening every single time just to make sure that they understand the word that is being there. So we said that we kind of set it in the middle and where we make sure that it's engaging, digestible, and actually very useful.

So we have to respect people's inboxes, right right? So no clickbaity, no AI doomsday nonsense, it's just valuable insights that they can actually use. And that's how you build trust with people.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

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Sonia: Okay. Can you give an example? Because what you said, don't talk to people, not at them. Can you give it a quick example of like what that distinction looks like in practice?

Maria: So if I'm not mistaken, I think that one of the biggest misconception of AI, let's say, that's my perspective over this, that it is neutral. Like some people think it's neutral. It's not, you know.

So we make sure that it, I don't know if I'm answering that question correctly, but that's my perspective over this. So we make sure that it is understandable as much as possible. So it's because it's built by people and trained by people and human data, it needs to carry some basis.

So we're not just actively questioning and covering this or that. We're just trying to, you know, we're just letting those biases kind of go unchecked, you know?

Yeah.

Sorry, we're not actively making these biases go unchecked. We make sure that it's not. So we don't just highlight these kinds of issues.

We talk about the real world impact. And there are some instances where people like, don't really like what they see. So they kind of hit unsubscribe.

Let's say there's something controversial happening out there. They didn't like it. They have the possibility to not like it.

So we make sure that it's kind of covering everything with a sort of neutral background, and like sort of also give the bias that people need.

Sonia: Yeah, yeah. And I think what also, I think the difference is like you're saying, you're neutral with a little bit of like, clearly giving them the insider insight that's needed, but talking to them like someone they know, rather than a professor that's giving a lecture at a university. Is that kind of what you mean?

Like at versus to?

Exactly.

How do you balance, because there's stuff happening in AI all the time, right? How do you balance news versus what is like more evergreen type of topics that are universal, that someone needs to know? Because I imagine that there are some people are like, I need the news, I need to know what's going on and what's the latest.

And some people are going to be like, listen, I just need to know what are the challenges with the AI that I should be thinking about? What are the watch outs and how can I save myself eight hours a week, right? So those things are not necessarily connected to the news.

So how do you all strike that balance?

Maria: So we mix it up basically, like news is very important, but we also kind of sometimes we take a step back and ask like, why does this matter? Who is this impacting? Who is impacting by this AI tool or like this policy?

And that's where editorial content comes in. So for example, if there's a new hiring tool, we don't just say a company X just launched this, and we have to dig really deep into it. But at the other end, after finishing up on writing that kind of piece, there's like, at the end, we do this these kinds of funny evergreen stuff, like this is a tool that you might need if you want to write an essay, and you don't have to write an essay.

And that would come in really handy if you're in college, and you're trying to impress someone. So that's basically it. Especially, it's very important for communities that are already, like people really want to understand it, but also at the same time, we really want to have fun into it.

So we have instances in every Newsletter where we do AI versus the real picture. I don't know if you've seen it, but we try to cover it and we try to test people if they would know if this picture is AI or not. So it's been the hype lately.

Everyone really likes it. People have been subscribing just for this specifically.

Sonia: Oh, that's cool.

Maria: Yeah.

Sonia: That's cool.

Yeah.

And I think like you said, that having that little bit of fun and those features are cool. Are there any other watch outs that you would say for people who were thinking about building a newsletter as a part of their overall offering, and trying to think about how they can do that in an inclusive manner? Are there like mistakes that you see people doing, or any other recommendations that you would say like, do this, not that?

Maria: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So in my line of work, I have to subscribe to a lot of newsletters just to see the tone of voice that they use and the kind of like how they structure the newsletter.

It's part of the research, right? It's a part of the research process to make sure that I cover everything and kind of understand what it's out there so that I can be a bit different. And we, sorry, we can be different.

People tend to write like robots a lot, and I've been seeing it a lot. There's a lot of newsletters out there that I adore, including The Hustle, which is from Hopspot. And there's also 1440.

It's one of the best ones and the morning group. These are newsletters that kind of like hit you in the face with the news because they know how to write it. So if a newsletter feels like it's a corporate press release, no one's sticking around.

No one really likes that. So a good newsletter has like a personality. It feels like a conversation, not an announcement.

No one really wants to see, Elon Musk did this. No, I want you to have a really good title and headline to make me click on it. And also there's another mistake where people, they assume it's a one size fits all kind of content and they think it works.

It doesn't. If you're only covering things from like a specific perspective or like a tech pro perspective, as I like to call it, because I've been seeing a lot of tech pros content out there. Not everyone really like wants that, you know?

So you're kind of missing a huge part of the potential audience. A lot of people out there are not tech pros. They're just normal people that do something.

They work in, let's say, marketing or they work in construction. They really want to understand what's happening. So people want to see themselves reflected in that content.

And that's one of the mistakes. A third mistake I would say is that they don't evolve. And if you're not actively listening to your audience, if you're not checking feedback, and if you're not shifting your content to reflect what they need and what they really want to kind of read, your newsletter will go stale.

So my recommendation to people gets me to this point. I would say my recommendation is talk like a human. Just talk to them like you're talking to anyone.

Write it as if you're writing to someone in front of you rather than writing it to the moon. An alien is not going to read it, a human is going to. So people don't subscribe to newsletters to read AI-generated content.

They want a perspective and they want a year and they want to feel themselves while reading. They really want to interact and they want to scroll because they're on their phone most of the time. They want to scroll to the end of it, not just the part where it interests them.

So I would say also feature diverse stories and it's not just a Silicon Valley thing. You need to cover innovations from different parts of the world and make sure that you're engaging with your audience. If someone replies to your newsletter, reply back and tell them that you understand your perspective.

And kind of like you're doing on social media, just do the same thing with newsletters.

Sonia: Yeah. One quick thing, everything that you said is really helpful and valuable. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on, because you of course have to acquire the people to subscribe to your newsletter.

And is there an element of thinking about different identities and how you're promoting the newsletter so that you attract that broad cross section of people?

Maria: So news is news, right? Like making sure that it's kind of like on a neutral ground, but also making sure that it hits the right person. I like fashion, I like Taylor Swift.

I really want to read news about Taylor Swift. So when I first started, we covered one of the segments where it spoke about how someone was really using AI generated content to kind of smear Taylor's name. And I liked it, I wrote it, and I made sure that a lot of people that like Taylor also really read that.

So it's sort of like writing it and making sure that the person receiving it relates to it as much as they can.

Sonia: Yeah. Okay. So part of what you said is, all right, so you like Taylor Swift, and you know there's going to be a subset of Swifties who are going to be interested in reading this.

So we've written it but now we've got to make sure that people know that we cover topics like this in our newsletter.

Okay. 

Maria: Exactly. 

Sonia: All right. Yeah.

All right. So the different types of topics, that broad diversity of the topics is helpful because it helps you reach out and attract the people who are going to resonate with that topic. I totally get it.

Okay. Let's switch gears a little bit. I want to learn more about you as a consumer.

Tell me about a time when a brand made you specifically, Maria, feel like you belonged.

Maria: So I have these two perspectives when it comes to this. I have the career one and I have the personal one. And I'm going to do with the personal one first just to let you get to gain grounds on this.

What I would say the first one would be Huda Beauty. As an Arab woman coming from the Arab world, having someone with that amount of influence in the beauty industry, who was also an Arab, had a representation of Arab women in general, and she dominates the makeup industry and walks shoulder to shoulder with people like Anastasia Beverly Hills and Dior and Chanel. It has been absolutely amazing for me as a woman, as an Arab woman.

That was one.

Sonia: Wait, tell me, who is it?

Maria: Huda Beauty.

Sonia: Okay. So I want to check it out. I'll drop a link in the show notes so people can see exactly what you're talking about.

Maria: Yeah, yeah. Huda is pretty famous when it comes to makeup. Everyone talks about her.

She's Iraqi. I think she's Iraqi-American. She lives in Abu Dhabi or Dubai, I forgot, but she's incredible.

She's one of the most influential women that I've always looked up to. Even though I don't work in the makeup industry, but I buy a lot of her stuff because I feel related to it. Another one is called Girlfriend Collective.

In Lebanon, I didn't have access to that. I don't think they would ship, or even when they needed to ship, the fees would be astronomical. Girlfriend Collective is a sustainable fashion brand.

It's not just about being stylish and going to your workout, it's really about inclusivity. As a person who's mid-size, sometimes when I need to buy something that is large, sometimes it gets to be too tight on me, or when I need to buy something XL, it's too baggy on me. That's what they come along that they're focusing on kind of like representing different body types and ethnicities and backgrounds.

And that's, I can't wait to purchase something from here to go to yoga because I do yoga. So from a professional perspective, not because I work with them right now, honestly, and this is not just because I like to talk about them, but HubSpot, ever since I started in marketing, and HubSpot notes that they've been like a goal to me, like they're like the star that I needed to reach. And working with them has, and they kind of make you feel like they're very vocal about inclusion and they kind of back it up.

And there's like a huge number of women that works there. I think there's like 47 point something of women and non-binary that work in HubSpot. And that's insane, you know, like, because AI in general is kind of male dominated.

I want to work somewhere where I don't feel like there's a lot of, you know, this kind of male dominated influence on it. I really want to be where women are and when non-binary are. And they don't make you feel like you're being benched.

They make you feel like a partner. So yeah, HubSpot is insane. I like it so much.

It's one of the places where I actually feel like I belong.

Sonia: Very cool. We're big fans of HubSpot around here. So it's nice to hear that story.

Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you and your work?

Maria: So I'm on LinkedIn basically. I'm building my brand from ground up when it comes to that. And obviously, it's Maria with Mindstream.

So it's Maria Gharib, G-H-A-R-I-B. And we're on LinkedIn. You can also follow Adam and Matt.

They are also very, very active on LinkedIn. And my email is there, you know. It's just attached to my profile.

Sonia: Perfect. I will drop links to that in the show notes. They can find out more about you and read your writing every day with the Mindstream newsletter.

Maria, this has been so enlightening. Any parting words of wisdom for marketers and business leaders who want to do a better job of building a newsletter that attracts and retains a bigger and more diverse audience? And super loyal, of course, right?

Maria: So yeah, obviously. So my, I think my advice to them would be, you know, try, stop trying to sound smart. People don't subscribe to newsletters for academic essays.

You know, they want clarity, they want relevance. They also maybe even like they want a bit of sass here, a bit of sarcasm there. If your readers need a dictionary, as I said, it's not sticking around.

It's not going to, you know, kind of continue. And honestly, inclusivity, you know, as I work with Household right now, and I've been working with Mindstream for a while, and the idea, like, I don't want, you know, I don't want to see a month just dedicated for people from different backgrounds. I don't want a day just dedicated.

I want an everyday thing, right? Like, I don't want a kind of diversity with a bow. I just want, you know, that kind of like, like, I want that kind of content to show up every single week, I need voices to be highlighted, I need stories about that kind of stuff.

So, and also people, like, need to not underestimate the power of listening. So if someone from the audience gives a feedback, just listen to that feedback. It will come in handy, you know, listen to your people and listen to your audience.

They don't know better, but to an extent, maybe, they could give you a certain perspective that you haven't seen before, you know?

Sonia: Yeah, love it, love it, love it. Thank you again, Maria, for stopping by. This has been really great.

I learned a ton, personally, so.

Maria: Thank you for having me. It's been awesome. Thank you so much.

Sonia: Oh, I learned a ton in that episode, and I hope you did too. If you liked this episode, I would so appreciate it if you would share it with your friends, your colleagues, and your network. It really does go a long way towards helping more people discover the show, and I hope it goes a long way towards helping more brands create newsletters that have a really broad and diverse readership.

And speaking of newsletters, are you signed up for the Inclusion & Marketing Newsletter? With each edition, I send news, resources, tips, insights, and other commentary”

“commentary, all about how to attract and retain a bigger, more diverse, and fiercely loyal customer base. Go to inclusionandmarketing.com/newsletter to get signed up.

I'll also drop a link for that in the show notes for use. You can access it easily. Until next time, remember, everyone deserves to have a place where they belong.

Let's use our individual and collective power to ensure more people feel like they do. Thanks so much for listening.

Talk to you soon.”

From Inclusion and Marketing: 152. Build a large and diverse audience with an email newsletter, with Maria Gharib, Feb 27, 2025

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inclusion-and-marketing/id1604907821?i=1000696575508&r=2093

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