Marketing Against The Grain

do you wanna get more customers i know you do i'm gonna show you how to steal the best marketing playbook on the internet to get more customers for your business and i'm gonna show it to you with the tool you're probably not using it and ai gonna help us do it all let's get to today's show did you know that most businesses only used twenty percent of their data that's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out we're paying for a coffee that's one fifth full point is you miss a lot unless you use hubspot their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business the insights trapped inside emails call logs and transcripts all that unstructured data that makes all the difference because when you know more you grow more visit hubspot dot com today today i'm gonna show you how to reverse engineer anybody's marketing with ai and this way you can be inspired by the marketing you love and apply it to your own business and i wanna give you a store about how this all started it all started with this company called gru and myself and other folks that i work with at hubspot were basically like i see groom all the time especially on instagram clearly they have a big instagram advertising strategy it's this like nutritional gummy thing i don't even you know i'm not not a customer but i was like the ads that i keep seeing are very personalized they're relevant to some of the interests that i have so clearly they're using some very cool data around me and my behavior on instagram and building segmentation and building these ads and so i was like i'm just curious now how is it that they are building ads like this and so i went to their website and i was looking around and i was like you know what i'm gonna work with ai to solve this problem and so what i'm gonna do is i'm showing you this website in the per complexity comic browser so it's not google chrome it's not safari it's the new web browser from complexity and one of the things i love about prop complexity comment is it has this assistant toggle so i can toggle this assistant on and ask it any question and it uses the website as kind of the context to answer those questions and it has an agent that can go through and browse the website for me and so what's really cool is i can just ask you hey this company makes amazing personalized instagram ads that i always see and are very good can you explain to me how they do it and what tools they use and what's great is it goes and looks at third party resources in addition to this website and it's basically like groom and scrum ads stand out because they combine systematic creative testing personas specific messaging and cutting edge technology so what's really cool is that the complexity assistant breaks down their entire strategy of how they do instagram ads they don't run a generic ad they do persona driven ad funnels and each ad matches a dedicated landing page that's very cool they have multi channel creative sprints so they test rapidly as ad creative teams coordinated campaigns across meta tiktok youtube google etcetera unsuccessful creative fractions are killed fast okay that's cool they have a influencer and user generated content program advanced ad creation that's kinda cool but my question here is that's fun why do they actually do this so they have a creative tech stack and i'm like okay that's kinda good and so i follow up and i'm like what are the specific tools they use sometimes you want a blueprint for like oh i know exactly what this company does which pro complexity assistant gave me an amazing summary basically how to steal their instagram marketing what next is you're like well tactically how i do that what tools do i use and they use meta ad manager they use a company called north beam for attribution and tracking they use ad creation platforms they use icon four play and at these folks are deep into ai ad creation because i've only heard of one of those three ai ad creation tools so clearly i need to do a show on for play and at because i've only worked with and seen icon so clearly they're like deep experts in this which is very cool they use g for influencer management they use shopify and the shopify app stack so what's really cool is that you can break down what actual tools they're using and sometimes it might find these in third party sites i've done a version of this where it actually just looks at the source code it looks at the tracking code and code on the website that's the cool thing of having a browser based agent so now you have this whole ai flow that just exists to basically say i wanna understand what people are doing and now i could just keep asking questions yeah i could be like you know how do they really use ai ad generation in their strategy and it's making a best guess right based off of the information they have but it's going to be a cool back and forth you could have if you're just trying to figure out this tactic you can just get it and it's going to come up it's gonna get some information likely from the vendors they're using right and then it's saying like cool gru uses advanced ai generation as core part of the strategy with the platform icon ai ad maker as the technology engine here's how it's integrated they have an add gp workflows for creative generation automated innovative and clothing and an ai chief marketing officer icons ai cmo so it's basically just breaking down the features of icon how they're using icon and the way that it's being used so this is really cool you can now reverse engineer anybody's strategy and so i was thinking about this like it could apply to a big brand like nike or a smaller brand like rooms one of the things i did that i thought was really cool that i wanna show you guys the one of the things i love about complexity common as well is that when you have this assistant open in the browser you can also use shortcuts so if i hit the backslash i have saved a shortcut called reverse and this is a pre written prompt that i have done that basically takes everything i'd wanna know about how to reverse engineer company's marketing strategy and put it in the context of my job i run marketing at hubspot and so all i can do is just pick my reverse shortcut and it is taking everything on whatever page i'm at where if i was across multiple pages and it will go and give me this information so it's saying hey i'm on the nike page the primary cta to shop and buy things audience target segment it's broad sports it's giving me a strategy diagnosis how they're positioning who their ideal customer profile is their offer mechanics funnel hypothesis this is especially great if you are maybe a technical founder or a sales founder you don't know a ton about marketing you can just go and do this for a bunch of relevant companies in your industry and get a deep understanding very quickly of how they're thinking about marketing as well as doing it for companies you admire here who you think do great marketing and see how they're thinking about it because you can then take all of that formulate that into your own expertise to build your own marketing messaging your marketing strategy etcetera what's really cool is it breaks down the messaging creative they're doing also talks about their conversion architecture what is the actual actual flow to get people to convert this is especially helpful if we were doing this with a competitor website and you were looking at their conversion architecture you would look at this and say okay great how do i make a better and simpler conversion architecture than my competitors so that i can convert at a higher rate and win more customers there is literally like a hundred ways you can use this to actually grow your business in a really remarkable way and really make your marketing much stronger reverse engineering used to take days of manual research but with per complexity it took minutes and you can do the same thing we've got this free guide that shows you exactly how you can turn per complexity into your competitive intelligence engine you can analyze competitors automate your research and find hidden insights most people miss we always have a stage in here about distribution and growth loops so they're talking about seo channel fit and then it breaks down what their text stack is and likely like hey they likely have a custom cms definitely all these massive companies likely have a custom cms or a content management system for their website and they can break down performance and they give us an actual playbook and how this applies to hubspot and gives me some experiments to run and what's really interesting here there's a bunch of stuff can do this but again it starts a really valuable thread on how a particular company doing marketing and the questions i might be able to ask it and how i can use it to optimize and improve my own strategy so any company so like this is a really big b b company like servicenow we'll go to their crm page and we'll just be like hey reverse that and so i've got my prompt and we could put the full detailed of my reverse engineering prompt look for a link in the show notes that will give that to you but this is just a a simple prompt that i've built to basically try to reverse engineer could be homepage this case it's a specific product page right that's what's cool could be an instagram account anything related to marketing it doesn't have to just be like the broad website of a company could be a specific product page anything if you wanna really get a detailed summary of the other side of it not what the user experience is but what the marketer on the other end is thinking trying to accomplish in the technology that they're using this i think is one of the most underrated hacks in marketing today the fact that you can quickly and easily reverse engineer anybody's marketing strategy is remarkable and if you're curious and you're a student of marketing if you'd literally just did this for a day you would probably know more about your competition or the most admired brands web and marketing strategies than most people working at those companies and that's pretty awesome i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called creators our brands hosted by tom boyd it's brought to you by the help hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals creators or brands explore how storyteller are building brands online from the mindset to the tactics to the business side they break down what's working so you can apply that to your own mission they just did a great so called why your perfect content isn't working do this instead with courtney johnson it's great show listen to creators our brands wherever you get your podcast so i've shown you how to do this i'm gonna give you the prompt this again is all using the complexity comment browser using their agent and again if it's something you're gonna do on the regularly you can just build the shortcut like i showed you and it's really awesome very simple to do this but it can basically put you at the center of anyone's marketing strategy and really let you build and scale your business i hope this was helpful you can go download complexity comment and give this a try for yourself and we'll see you next time on marketing against the grain

hey everyone we have an exciting show today the one and only greg is and burgers here and we're gonna talk about three ways to build a million dollar business with ai you can go into any of these right away greg showing you all the tools all the prompts everything you need to go build these businesses let's get to today's show did you know that most businesses only use twenty percent of their data that's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out or paying for a coffee that's one fifth full point is you miss a lot unless you use hubspot their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your this the insights trapped inside emails call logs and transcripts all that unstructured data that makes all the difference because when you know more you grow more visit at hubspot dot com today greg is back on the show greg entrepreneur youtube creator documentary maker i'm not sure how you like to be thought off these days greg viral vitality a lot on x do some really cool threads like to bash saas a lot you know like letting you enjoy that part of it but yeah like you're up to a lot of different things i think on this show one of the things you're phenomenal at is showing people the opportunity around ai you have an incredible documentary series called i think the ai gold rush and so we would love you to show our audience if you had to start today how would you use ai to make a million bucks oh easy i i can do that no big deal right yeah well the namibia dollars is not that hard anymore because your currency a million euros is much much harder not sure oh man us shade yeah so here's what i can promise to people by the end of this episode they will get their creative juices flowing around a framework for how you could use some of these ai tools i'll share the tools i'll share how i think about optimizing the prompts i'll share how i'll think about building distribution and you might make ten million you might make a hundred thousand but it is the framework for how the new line of businesses are being created and i promise i won't hold back it's too we want it all let's do it so first of all i'm gonna show you a tool i built for myself but then i ended up making it public and so i c founded this it's called idea browser dot com have you seen this i have yeah very cool so my thesis is that you know people say ideas mean nothing but it's just not true that's totally not true it's just not true i hate that yeah you know i think now more than ever if you find the right niche idea based on the trend in a world where you can vibe code anything i believe that there's a huge opportunity there so i built this because i run a holding company what it does is it scrape facebook groups it scrape reddit platforms like that and it creates an idea of the day based on the trend and one of the more interesting features i find is there's this build this idea section so what we can do today is like we can look at this idea and for pretend like we're building it like how we would build it and what tools would we use does that sound like a fun let's do it i would love that yeah okay cool so let's actually look at the idea i it's a grim one i know i'm actually looking at it here at the sentence no actually i was at a funeral last week and i actually had deal similar to this so i think a pretty good idea okay so could we do this one yes let's do it let's do this one okay so i'll read it for people cemetery management software that digitize historical record for small ce so small cemetery operate with paper records and the plot maps remain hand drawn wow that's crazy i didn't realize that it's wild so basically pricing ranging from thirty dollars to two hundred a month based on cemetery size mvp features a web dashboard where managers could upload photos of paper records that convert to searchable text through ocr cr you know market seems big three hundred and twenty million dollars so and it gives you like actually your value ladder like your stack right so like what lead magnet that you wanna do maybe a digital cemetery transformation guides so cool the cemetery helper introduction package the core offer which is a cemetery helper pro so this is like using ai to basically you know study people like you can see russell b yeah who's like an og funnel guy right oh yeah yep yeah yeah so we're gonna do this idea and it's like okay how do we actually like build this idea using ai and how do we actually market it the problem is that people don't know how to prompt the tools very well and they also don't know what tools to prompt so what this does is it gives you prompts for ad creative on all the different platforms it gives you prompts for the brand package the landing page the content calendar the email funnel system the email sequence lead magnet the product how is it doing this greg yeah how are you doing this is this like a bunch of different prompts or is it one prompt that's kinda like pulling data from like p maybe just like a little bit about you don't have to giveaway away your kinda you know your magic but what does ai allowed you to do that kind of helped you collapse all of this into a single place i would love to get away at all the magic because to me like you know you asked me like what do i do i i consider myself in the light bulb business you know if i can help people's light bulbs go off that to me is a successful day so i'll tell you exactly how we do this for each idea we have all that data that data gets downloaded we funnel that data and context into these different sections and know a lot of people v code or their use chat or cloud or whatever and they don't get the results they want so they're upset they're like oh this is useless but what's great about this is it gives the right amount of contact yes a context so it's all about the context as you know you guys know this right definitely yep the way i see it this is like training wheels for anyone to prompt so you know how i would start with this there would be two options either i would start with a landing page put up a landing page and then start generating traffic to that or i'd start with the product requirements doc the p and i would use like a v zero to actually build the product oh interesting okay so there's a bunch of different like unquote five code tools what's your preferred tool and why you know for the next kind of step you're going to to kinda build that landing page so for landing page i mean they're all kinda similar there right you know and some people like lovable more some people like v zero more some people like rep more rep agent has like i don't know if you've seen this you can have it do like a fast version in like a minute or do you say like use rep agent and it'll build out everything but it's gonna take twenty minutes yeah their new agent is insane it's like one of the more autonomous agents agents in the markets yeah good so let's just look at that for a second just so people actually this is interesting reddit it how complex of an app can rep agent make oh this is a year ago so that's like forty years in ai land true at least yeah but even you know this person says like it can build apps that are fairly complex i just finished building an rs p app and that was six months ago yeah so if you're just trying to build a landing page pick whatever brand feels good to you if you're trying to build an app that's where tools like v zero lovable bolts they're better at the front end you know they're getting better at building full apps but i would say like if you're you know a non expert non technical person i would use both lovable v zero to get something out there but if you're technical i would use something like cloud code or a cursor yeah i have an app for the most part minimal viable version built and when i got the thirty thousand lines of code i need developers i have two developers and they start to kinda lose i don't know track of the code and start to like integrate weird things into the code base and so the mix i had to use was real developers and cloud code plus one of those apps yeah they definitely still have like some scalability issues totally yeah i agree and i think like it's okay you don't need to be you know sam alt as a one person billion dollar company like we're trying to make a million dollars here so yeah you know it's okay if you need a higher death a dev right rep has something called rep bounties right so if you don't know what to do you can literally just have a task i'm not like associated with rep or anything i'm you know i think this is interesting yeah you just show i think it's interesting like i think we've all been there where v coded something and we're like i'm tired you know and like i just don't know what to do here well so it's the the interesting thing of like vibe building anything i i i include a graphics like you're going to go to build the landing page actually these tools are great for landing pages but create part is magic the editing part literally makes you wanna set yourself a fire yeah when you start to really have to do editing in the code base edit of an image editing of anything that's where you start to lose all that magic and you just start to say i've had to start from scratch like it's easier just to start all over again than actually try to use these tools for editing i think i stalled the problem with ai today is like huge the consistency and reliability of the edit is nowhere near good enough to ship a lot of production ready things yeah i totally agree and i also think you know going back to the topic of this like how do we make a million dollars with ai i probably wouldn't build a full application to start realistically no like i would honestly probably start by like grabbing some of these prompts around like go to market you know there's the saying measure twice cufflinks ones and i think that we've all been so trigger happy to like vibe code but like you need to understand like what you're building before you're building else you're not gonna make a million dollar right even if like rep agent builds the thing right so i would use something like this right so let's see you know go to market strategy so it's gonna give us a prompt for a go to market strategy and then i i would use probably chat gp yeah that's what i would pick to yeah so i would probably do that and it has this long ass prompt that says create a comprehensive go to market strategy that provides a clear roadmap for launching and scaling this business focus on the most effective channels and tactics based on the target audience and competitive landscape and then you have to be like the editor just because you got the idea of browser prompt doesn't mean like don't accept it as like a hundred percent perfect right like you need to read this and you have to agree with it so by the end of like some of these prompting these business prompting that you're gonna do make sure that you believe in what you're building you know what mean okay yeah yeah this is where like you have to have some beliefs so you have to interject them into the strategy and the prompt and you kinda iterate and go back and forth with this for twenty thirty minutes to get to a point where you're like oh this is actually good and i could see this working you know you guys are world class marketer so what do you think of what chat ts spit out like do you buy it do you think it's a you know right i think the market analysis is pretty good right i think the core question we're marketing is really gonna come in is in the next couple sessions right like how do you position it and what are the actual channels that you're gonna go after to build a business like this right yeah so let's see what they say see what sam alt says this i don't know if it's trying to be tongue in cheek with that us i love the position statement which is for small cemetery mounted still buried chat is a creative marker that's it i love that light buried in paperwork this is where like doing some basic understanding of the audience right like is a very non technical audience yes right and so you need to make sure that the positioning and the language is as basic as possible and it's literally just like we're gonna turn your plot drawings into digital records to help you continue to build and manage your cemetery business right like it's gotta be very basic like if you think about it right you've spent probably fifteen minutes going from business idea to full analysis to go to market strategy go to market strategy is pretty good like from what you're shown on screen right now again you have to be able to i always think with ai ai is gonna do eighty percent and that you do the last twenty but you have so much time to make that last twenty percent much more impactful and so you can really refine this but i think it generally it looks pretty good the one thing you just mentioned i think is important for our listeners greg and you are you know a seasoned entrepreneur one of the things that i think the average person the mistake they make is they kinda build too much of the product prior to mh marketing or getting feedback in that product you did mention that so is there anything in here around like a phased approach where you would try to build some initial feedback like your waiting list try to get my initial user traction just to get feedback on the minimal viable version or is this really just your full scaled marketing plan so this marketing plan looks like it's the full scale thing yeah and what i might say this is great but i don't want to build the mvp all at once what i want to do is validate that this is a good idea so i don't waste years of my life in building same dia cemetery records yeah people don't want so i need you to come up with a marketing plan for a more lean startup up approach to building this landing page waitlist etcetera alright we've got our prompt of the week for you this one's designed to help you generate million dollar ideas using ai if you're feeling inspired after hearing about these tools and strategies this is your next step scan the qr code or click the link in the description now let's get back to the show dude no one even says lean start up anymore both startups so just lean startups by default now right like do you remember when that book came out yes it was a transformation transformational filed fraud entrepreneurship but it seems like it might as well be like a hundred years ago wow it's insane it actually it's kinda wow i hadn't thought about it i didn't thought about that book in years what do you think replaces that if that was the lean startup up given the way you can build businesses today what is like the version of that font entrepreneurs today i mean this is the new lean startup up which is like you find an idea based on data that ai basically scraped based on real conversations on the internet you then build that idea but before you build it you validate it you have to be like a decent business marketing person to basically edit that so you have to get smart on that but you go and do that and you research it like you spend a bunch of time researching it and when i say a bunch of time i mean like three hours in ai time that's a lot of research yeah yeah you could yeah yeah it's a whole build in the entire app yeah and you used you know chad e and claude and man and companies like that to go and do that and by the way use multiple of them please yeah i use chat great now i've done this with out gigi now i'm just gonna go and copy and paste it into claude okay now you know claude said one or two interesting things and then i'm gonna go to gemini and then i'm gonna go to man and i'm just gonna do that that's the three hours right and then by the end of that process what i do literally is i have a notebook and i write down with a pen and paper what the idea is what the marketing strategy is going to be how am i gonna grow it what does the mvp look like before actually going into v zero doing a p to all these things now i don't know if that's a boring way to do it like i know people want are listening to this and they're like my fingers are burning to vibe code it's like slow down my friend slow down spend time over here i think what you're really telling people greg is like you can go run and vibe code stuff but the likelihood that you waste a bunch of time building something that nobody wants and make little to no money is pretty high right we're here we're doing a host about like how you would make a million dollars with ai part of that is like you have to validate the actual company and idea in a way that makes sense you need to have a strategy that you can then go get some feedback from potential customers on before you go and build everything because it might take three four five six ideas until you get to the one that's really the million dollar idea that you have the unique skills to go build out and do you can't just go instantly into like making something that's going to be a million dollar business still the truth is your first idea is never the million dollar business never never right and if you're lucky it's your second idea and it's true you're lucky you know i'll give you famous example of a lucky second idea was the story of instagram before instagram became famous it was an app called bourbon and bourbon was a four square competitor when you you remember you still like check to different yeah tell people where you were it was so weird so strange and one of the popular features on bourbon was posting a photo to a location so i think it was actually kevin sis the founder of instagram girlfriend who was like you guys should just focus on photos that's what people care about they built it in a short amount of time new app instagram mh and it took off on the first day got twenty five thousand users so they needed to go through the messy middle of building bourbon to get to the place where okay the real insight is around photo sharing and i think if we were gonna actually build this cemetery management software business which by the way is the most grim idea so i even know if i can personally do that but that's also why it has a higher likelihood of making a lot of money yeah so you're gonna have less competition less people who'd wanna do it right that's right that is true that is a really good point and we are trying to make a million dollars so i take it back so i think that through this process around like here's the customer interview guide that you can get through ai the competitive analysis through the go to you know actually putting in these prompts in on those four five different platforms and then using a notebook and why i i i use a notebook is i don't know why it like clicks in my brain more when i write things down mh but writing down the insights there spending like a day doing that and then the next day building the landing page building the brand package building the ad creative what we might realize that you know this idea actually was close was the right niche but actually the mvp is actually quite different yes what these owners need is actually very different than what this idea is yes you know that the they on the right problem but the idea needs to evolve to better fit the problem right yes i wanna show one more thing i don't know why more people don't do this reddit business but there's like this feature here which goes through different niches and just scrape reddit that uses ai agents to scrape reddit and facebook groups that's sweet and just tells you literally like what are the pain points in these different subreddit so for example like man backyard chickens and urban home setting so this is like a i mean we we're covering the best topics today s chickens yeah homestead yeah this is crazy actually that's like kind of the point is you probably haven't thought about backyard chickens a lot but apparently it's a a high pain level and the most effective people are these new hobby yes so you can use ai to look at what are the underserved segments what are the pain points that people are facing and it literally has like someone on reddit like lost three hen last night this is getting expensive in breaking are there any products that actually keep our coo out or around i'm online wasting money that's the cool part about ai right get data yes right and then you can use that data to give you an insight around what to be building and also by the way for the people listening to this i would just like copy these user quotes post it into chat e or claude or whatever you're using and be like make landing page copy that speaks to these user quotes i don't know why more people don't do that well and by the way there's a couple other things that i think are really interesting on this particular like reddit scraping example greg which is one if the channel's is big enough it's your whole marketing strategy right like you're just taking the the core problems from that channel engaging with the channel and that community is your target market and maybe that's not a million dollar business but it might be a hundred thousand dollar business yeah right which i think is interesting the other thing i know we talked a lot about vibe coding but you could make money in a lot of different ways like for something for example that stops raccoons for getting in chicken coops it might just be like there's a bad solution in america and somebody in like sweden has figured this out and you just need to like import it and sell it here right there's very basic things you can do to make money once you understand like the problem and demand in the market two my favorite entrepreneurs i can't recall their names now there's a great write up on them and one of the publications are the german brothers who have made billions by just taking us businesses and replicate replicating them in europe and that's what they had did right they didn't have to validated anything because they were validated in the us and they just replicate replicated them really fast wanna tell you about a podcast i love called creators our brands hosted by tomboy boyd it's brought to you by the help hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals creators are brands explore how storyteller are building brands online from the mindset to the tactics to the business side they break down what's working so you can apply that to your own mission they just did a great episode called why your perfect content isn't working do this instead with courtney johnson it's great show listen to creators our brands wherever you get your podcast you just kinda mentioned something there that i think is actually really important craig mh which is like why do more people not plug in their customer language to craft their content the other business i think is a really good business and we kinda showed it a way to kinda manually do this that someone can automate it is creating a digital twin of your customer and so the way you would do that is you would create an app and that app you would plug in things like your gong calls and all of the internal information you collect budget customer and then it would collect all of the external information you collect by your customer and then anytime you do something to mark to that customer or sell to that customer you could have your digital twin edit it for you and review it for you and then actually replicate it in your customer's language and we kinda showed how to do that in cloud projects that is a really good use case i think most companies have marked tiers and people that don't do that they just like guess mh that's why everything sounds like jargon right totally and that's why the average conversion rate on the internet is one to two percent right like no one talks about that but ninety nine or ninety eight percent of people are coming to websites and are literally just leaving yeah they're like not finding anything irrelevant to them at all yeah and we're like okay with it yeah we're like oh yeah that's the normal at one to two percent and like what i think that opportunity appearance so i think here's what's gonna happen to the web i think the website is actually we're gonna look website and say well that was like a really antiquated thing to do because yeah website is a static library of content that you have to like read through and research chat is a much much better version of that and so when you look at the data you know on average someone coming from chat converts like anywhere between four to twelve times better now people look at that and they think wow that's a great opportunity but the reason that is is because all of the research has happening away from your website and so one of the business opportunities is what is the modern website in a world where most of the research does not happen on your own website and i actually think your website will probably morph just a kind of some sort of multi model agent seller mh because you come there fully researched and so you're not looking to navigate and consume content you're looking to have a real interaction with someone who can actually demo the product to you get you the last twenty percent and think you can't get from chat and greg brock the c cofounder founder of open ai had a fascinating the culture in the week where he said he feels like chad is shown on a light on the website and just like how redundant it is and so there's another business opportunity on like what is the ai version of a website and i think that's a fascinating thing for someone to like build around but yeah i think open has made it clear that they wanna make chad the operating system correct yeah yeah yeah so the announcements from dev day around these apps that exist within chad e like you know you might not never go to idea browser dot com you might just at idea browser and just be like hey i'm thinking about an idea in cemetery space you know what do you think you know what i mean yeah frame the problem an opportunity for me yeah exactly yeah are you happy about that greg is that a good thing or a bad thing for you is it a good thing or bad thing for me i'm just one of those people that i'm like this is where the world is going yeah yeah you can't it's beneficial for me you know what mean like just gonna go build a bunch of apps and see what happens you know like but like okay i'll answer your question directly is it a good thing or a bad thing obviously it's on a good thing because the old way of the web was you control the experience and we're losing control to open a open a is gonna be able to control the experience and you can see that when i added here there's one two three four five apps that came up booking dot com cam course era xp fig someone at open a decided yeah that booking dot com for whatever everybody's reason in i don't see idea browser up here you know what i mean right yeah so the same way that the app store you know there was a lot of early winners and if you know you knew the editor of the app store back in the day you would get thousands and thousands of downloads i think the same is gonna be true at the app store on chat they're also gonna have an editing approval process anyways going back to the topic another way to make a million dollars is build apps for chat gp apps yeah mh i don't know why more people aren't like why are you even listening to this you know you know what mean like my hot take though is the cemetery thing is better than the chat gp app thing yeah that would be my burning hot take is yes the chat gp opportunity is there for sure but there is still so many problems that are completely not served and solved in this world that like if you just go and find one like the cemetery problem that the technology is so good and easy now to address it you can make a million though i hate to agree with you please disagree with me but that's like that is probably i love ai i love chat tea i love everything but i mean if you were just like go make a million dollars as fast as possible like i'm gonna start the cemetery business and gonna grind it out how would you figure out what app to build for open ai like what's the example of how do you build differently i guess for open ai versus the app like is there a difference and how people should think about that yes it's funny you should ask so i came up with this little framework for coming up with chat app ideas and what the opportunity is and we can actually talk about a couple of these start ideas if you're interested yeah but you know the goal is to build sd sdk native apps that chat automatically surfaces when people ask for help like help me get a mortgage plan a wedding or launch my newsletter that is the opportunity if you wanna build chat gp app you want to be the first thing where it says help me get a mortgage just like how in the seo days if you were you know rocket mortgage or whatever it's called help me get a mortgage or number one like you made literally billions of dollars so there's gonna be an opportunity keep in mind there's eight hundred million people who are weekly active users to this right to chat gp so you know if this works if chat gp app works and they don't like it it doesn't go the way of custom gp which we can talk about but mh was a a massive failure if this works then if you wanna create a not a one million dollar idea but like a ten million dollar plus idea that has like a bit more risk of not working then i would say you know try to own a high value keyword solve a specific high intent request that chat g can't handle natively and have a custom ui that's visual and they really want like visual ui so i mean maybe if we wanna build a cemetery app idea it's like you know my grandmother died and like need help with funeral planning and then it like pulls up a ui like this and you might a plot yeah okay so you have to monetize in some way right so i guess you would build that app in a way that allow them to look at things but as soon as they needed to do an action you would monetize the action by them having to click through to your app or you can monetize in the app didn't understand that part yeah like this is a website like what is the difference you fully send a website as far as i turn you know you know what sucks about it is open i don't hate me on this but it what sucks about it is the web was an open protocol or is an open protocol right if you wanna create a website you don't need permission from anyone to create a website in this environment you do need permission from open to approve your app i don't know if people know that right yeah correct so basically they they are the curator whereas in the open where there was no i guess the algorithm was a curator but like you're not having to have a human the human doesn't have oversight yeah well this comes back to kinda of my point of why the cemetery business is a better business than building like an app on chat gp is because your full autonomy over that cemetery business when it comes to chat gp just like you said greg open eye has gotta like let your app exist on their ecosystem but the other thing is you either have to provide functionality that's limited that's available in their technical infrastructure or you have to send people off to your app on a on its own url right and that then becomes two things to manage it then becomes kind of a user experience challenge where your top customers are gonna wanna get into a level of detail in most of these use cases where they're gonna need a standalone alone experience because at least in the short term what's capable within chat gb isn't going to be enough of what they what to do but isn't the business opportunity for chat that there's just gonna be a new way that people interact with stuff and so like your old apps don't make sense in a world where their expectation like the consumer is gonna want something different so the cemetery business has to be custom built to the way chat q users will use chat and so maybe the the way this works is there's like a monetization part where you can do most of the things in chat but you have to like go to the app to like complete some sort of tasks but anywhere that has eight hundred million weekly active users probably soon to be like double that at the rate that they're growing it feels like it's gonna be a fortune function to build into that ecosystem like there is a huge opportunity if you can figure out how to build apps in the way that those consumers wanna you know consume same way that the app store is very similar like the app the app store top list are all curated yeah guess my put is i don't know how this is that much different than the app store where you had the standalone alone mobile app but you still have a website and in many cases a more detailed at beyond the mobile app experience yeah yeah you know that's the opportunity but greg point is i think your point here is on the topic of building a million dollar business it's very early on chat gp yeah and there's not a ton of apps and so there's a lot less competition and that makes it worth playing by their rules yeah right i mean i'll give another you wanna make a million dollars another way to make a million dollars with chat apps is you build chat apps for companies yes like that's a good one actually we run a design firm that works on ai products and we announced that we're building gp apps for fortune five hundreds and like exploded there's infinite demand so yeah if you're a developer i would say like build these app for companies too right yeah maybe you don't have relationships with fortune five hundreds but i think that you can easily sell some of these just like how there's web designers for websites and small businesses and people make you know millions of dollars a year doing it you can also start building these little apps and charge couple thousand dollars or you know even better charge them like fifty dollars a month or a hundred dollars a month and build a portfolio of it if you're going to like watch this episode and say i want to be early in the chat media app store i wanna build a product and here is how you decide what to build like the idea different if you choose to build it into chat gb versus how you would just build it anyway does the idea differ like you have to have a different way of validating your idea yeah the way i see you know apps within chat is very similar to how like mobile versus web you know so like there's mobile first companies and there were there was desktop first companies like facebook for example couldn't really figure out getting on to mobile and that hurt them so they had to buy instagram which was basically the mobile first version of facebook so i think that at the cor of it you look at facebook it's a photo sharing app and then you look at instagram it's a photo sharing app yeah but it's it's a nuance difference so i think the apps that are gonna crush it on chat gp are gonna be chat first very like focused on this experience and how do i natively build this ui so it is the best possible experience which might just be like a little bit different than how their web experience works but like if we were working on that cemetery idea i think it would be hard for us to build the web version and build the chat version at the same time i would recommend someone to focus on either correct i wanna do that yeah okay can i get your thoughts on is there a million dollar idea around the use of sorta two or v three like these kinda new creative video clip tools yeah because like i love to create things and they're the tools that i freaking love now i don't have access store too because i'm a sad european and we're not allowed nice things but i'm curious to get your thoughts that's true do you have the quality of life so never where i live i'll see all i heard is that less ai is higher quality of life is that that that was takeaway i have a friend his name is pj have you seen some of his commercials i've seen them through yes his commercials are really good so this is a guy who's gotten three hundred million views on his ai ads to me he's like the top ai ad man wow and he comes from like the traditional i wouldn't say hollywood but like traditional video making ad making and he just applied his skills to using v three and and now so and this looks like a super bowl commercial you know what i mean yeah so look at this this is insane all of these are all via ai video and so where's the opportunity to build a million dollar business with ai video like so and v three first is by building audiences like if you can consistently push out content like this then you go to something like idea browser or come up with your own idea or find a trend and then go and sell them something because you've done the hard part around finding an audience right i have this framework i build all my businesses on which is like i called the acp funnel and i think i've talked about it on here before yeah start by building an audience then you know convert that audience or community and then build that product so i think right i would start you know by building audiences creating face list accounts yeah creating brand accounts but create super high quality videos and i could tell you how he creates this because i know how he creates this i'm happy to to share that like what the tell us yeah terence like please yeah so what he does is he writes a script with chat and claude so he fully writes a script but it's all with ai he has a framework for coming up with scroll stopping scripts largely that has to do with j positions being funny like highly visual and then using characters that like people recognize now i know someone's gonna say like well that's like a illegal you can't use you know sam alt likeness well he licensed that he allowed people to use it on store too okay i even know that about them by the way this could be a great ad for our cemetery business the that's actually got that what i was just thinking pretty much well what's hilarious is you would kill it on sort two with like cemetery ai content right like give be hilarious literally kill it i wonder how much sam regrets the decision to having in his likeness be open on sur too i mean probably a lot because he's like a meme but you know you don't have to use sam alt you can use people in the public domain like play doh and yeah socrates or yeah things like that and so he writes the scripts and then he uses a tool like free pick have you seen this no this is one of the tools where it's a kinda like an all in one image generator like let's say we wanted to make a video around this like let's say have him eating a banana or something you can pick the model here so so wow i haven't seen this tool yeah so you start by the model and you pick the right model and then what he does is he would pick let's say nano banana which is probably the best right now and he puts it all on like a fig of like right all the different things so he creates the frames first so he'll take this and then he'll basically put his script plus story board in one like fig and then once he has the frames he'll then use a video generator to go and like we can take this for example yeah turn it to video and turn into a video that's my weekend and on a tool like this you could again like you pick the different model the right model for it so you can see here all the different models has okay like one two right now which is alibaba open source models like really good right now so you might want that but you know if you're trying to do more of an animation maybe you want something like cli right so you pick the model that works best for the type and style that you're trying to figure out i love that free pick that is a cool tool i'm actually gonna spend a weekend using that too yeah ke is now gonna be on free pick all weekend thanks greg you just killed his family time i'm sorry family you know you're sorry your one million dollar idea here is like get really good at scrolled stop and video is build that audience and then you can kinda build a product to market to that audience a hundred percent yeah you could probably back in the day people just build handles with millions of followers that were memes backward like memes were newer and they just sold the handles so i think you actually did say that somewhere where at some point people may just buy over like sword two accounts or like handles that have tons of tons of viewers for their market which are just these kind of videos you might don't even need to build a product yeah i mean you know right now is a race it's an ai gold rush yeah it's also an intention gold rush yes right if exactly if you can build scare yeah if you can build that attention then you have an unfair advantage i saw this tweet the other day from brett he's a designer he said i just made a tiktok account posted a soar a video of squirrels jumping on a tram so seven million views three hundred and seventy deep seven thousand likes we'll hit twenty thousand followers today crazy now this is like just funny content so it's yeah easier to get likes and easier to get followers there's no niche right right so i mean it's awesome that he was able to do this that being said like if i'm thinking about building a million dollar company and i'm trying to build an audience i wanna think about what kind of videos i can create that build an awareness in the niche that i care about right awesome i have already started to sign free pick so this episode is awesome because i've been looking to get much better at the video tools i've been using flow and v three but free looks like the tool of choice for me yeah there's free pick and there's also enhance dot ai those are the two ones that i've used cool no affiliation alright so we gave multiple ways to make a million dollars we talked about how to use idea browser to build a a million dollar business how to build a million dollar business by building chat cheap etfs and then how to leverage ai video tools to basically build an account or a community and either sell that or use that to sell a product to make a million dollars like those are three great avenues to a million dollars and as normal greg you're killing it and you are i think the idea guy of all idea guys i love that you're on ideas matter as like a core corner because i do think they matter a ton and i think we gave people some things that are hopefully gonna get their ideas going as they watch the show i hope so i hope so and i don't ask for much but the only thing i'll ask for is if you like and comment this video so i mean we gave you million dollars of ideas right yeah give us something back hit like hit comment go check out greg's amazing youtube channel we'll link that up below go subscribe to that and we'll see you really soon when marketing great thanks for having me gents

on des we have nate hu who is an n innate n ninja and he has got us an agent that is going to take any image and turn it into an remarkable image based ad or video based ad for your biz and he's giving us a free template so anybody can go build that agent for themselves let's get to today's show hey nate welcome to marketing against the grain we're so excited to have you here today we're gonna talk some advanced ai workflows and you've got a really cool workflow that's gonna take an image and turn that into an ad and kinda show everybody what's possible with these ai workflow tools and these new image and video models i'm really excited so thank you for coming on the show today shout to you nate for absolutely crush youtube how long ago did you start on youtube like a year ago yeah pretty much a year ago to the date it was september nineteenth it was my first first video and you are one year three hundred and eighty nine thousand subscribers so man you are absolutely killing it on there and so highly recommend your youtube channel as well ai automation you have like ton of cool stuff and it's cool that you're gonna get to go through it live for our listeners and our watchers on youtube so i'm looking forward to learning this absolutely yeah i appreciate the kind words so yeah i'm ready to just jump into it if you guys are yeah let's do it man for everybody watching nate is gonna take us through workflow we're gonna talk about other workflows we're gonna build something in in this episode so it's really about how can you build a agent workflows for your business and so nate let's kick soft man alright so what we're looking at here in in this is my mister photoshop agent and i called it photoshop agent because the full video i did on youtube i did this one the nano banana model drops which was google's model to turn text into images and also kind of edit existing images and that's what we have down here we have these two tools that are for image generation but for today i added on a special extra tool which uses google's v three model that can turn text to video or images to video so you can see basically this is the agent talk to it through telegram and it can do image actions as well as a video action so what i'm gonna do just to start us off here is i'm gonna open up telegram in just a sec and i'm going to just drop in an image and then we will be able to have the agent sort of like turn it into an ad for us the screen looks scary nate it looks scary so is really no different from your zapier your your make your alter power bi any of these workflow automation platforms that have been around for a long long time because automation has been around for a long long time but now because you know the fancy word ai has been slapped in front of everything it feels like something new so the reason that i chose in is because it's a super visual builder and you'll see what i mean by that when we start running this demo you know you'll see the notes turning green you'll see the agent thinking it's just really cool to see what's happening because what's happening like in the back end is there's a bunch of code and you know json going on that's actually making this stuff happen but because now we're in a no code drag and drop interface it really lowers the barrier entry for people to get in here so just for you guys as context i have no coding backgrounds i went to school for business analytics and marketing and i've been able to just spin up some really cool stuff that would have taken a traditional software engineer weeks and weeks but it can take me a few hours in a day which is really cool but the possibilities of in or endless because you have all these different actions you can build agents that can call in different tools you can have these tools be different workflows you can have the tools be different agents so i know that sounds like a lot but the point i'm trying to make here is you can literally do anything and automate anything in any in so what we have here like i said is this is the main agent so this kind of controls everything and we're able to talk to this agent through telegram so i could pull up telegram on my phone for let's sake the demo i'm just gonna have it right here on the screens you guys can see and what i'm gonna do is just kind of walk through what i'm doing and show you guys kinda step by step what the agent's doing as well so because we're in test mode i just have to click this button so the agent's sound listening to us and when i send over this image so we've got this image of me holding a jb speaker what's going on right here is you can see the visual element here the agent just received that image it uploaded it to google drive and now the agent is thinking about what to do so you're gonna see right here in my telegram window it's gonna come back and say awesome what would you like me to name that photo in your google drive so now i can just say okay cool let's call that speaker i'll call it speaker image so now once again the agent has received our message it's thinking about it and it's gonna go ahead and use this tool down here in google drive called change name so it takes my natural language request understands context of what's going on and it uses the tool that best suits the use case so it knew it needed to change name and if i now go to the actual folder in here that it used and we refresh this you can see that it just added a picture right here called speaker image and this is the one that we just saw me upload into our telegram so it has access to this folder and it was able to change the name of this image just that quickly through my natural language request so now that we have that image uploaded i'm basically just gonna ask it to make it into a professional sort of like studio looking image and then we can take that image and turn that into a video so let's say we want to make some sort of you know like instagram ad where we want to you know like targeted for a summer having summer pool parties or something like that so i could say please turn that speaker image into a professional studio and we'll just do image where the speaker is next to a pool for summer okay we'll see the context that we gave it there and now the agent once again thinking with its brain over here gp five it's going to try to figure out okay you know i have this picture i have this request from the user which tool do i take action with and what it should be doing is it needs to understand what file to actually edit and then it's going to use this edit image tool so one question that i get a lot is when you're building these agents which chat model do you hook up and basically just the brain so you know you've got like your philanthropic cloud models your open ig models gemini you've got all these different models and they all just have like different strengths and weaknesses and right now i'm going with gp five which is actually on the slower side mh but i found the performance to be better really good and later i'll talk a little bit more about like what goes into prompting images and videos and stuff like that that's where all the magic lies in your prompts so you can see the agent finished up and now back in telegram we have this image where we have the speaker and it is by the pool and the agent said okay i called this image speaker by pool summer studio so we have that picture done and you can see if you look at the actual jb image it has consistency with you know the wording with the buttons with even the the handle thing that that i used to carry around the value here is this model nano banana it can actually do good with like text and it can have consistent characters yeah it's typically if you would have used an image generator it probably would have messed up the wording or it just wouldn't look like the exact same speaker it would just look like very generic speaker yeah i think it's really important to tell everybody that up until nana banana came out which is what like too ish months ago now like this would been really hard mh and not really been possible to do this use case and this is why the changing dynamics of ai can't be tricky because you gotta know what the core models are capable of so that you know you can go and build a workflow like this and so you know part of the magic that you've done here is you understood what nana banana and gp five were capable of and now you've been able to take that and put that in n eight n to actually scale that and get a agent that you can do repetitive tasks with exactly exactly it's all about figuring out your process and what you can automate and what you can because when i drop this video a lot of people were like okay that's cool but you could literally just go to nano banana in your browser if you want to drop in an image and have it be edited and that's a hundred percent true sure the way that you really unlock the value of like a scalable system is when you have everything running kind of on the back end where you don't even have to think about it so you could have a system where every morning it's going off and it's doing research on things that are going on in your industry and then it's coming back with a bunch of research it's looking at documents from your most recent meetings or your most recent news in your business and then it's maybe creating an image for linkedin post or like a carousel or linkedin post and now all the stuff is just happening on the back end without you having to think about it but like i said for today i wanted to show this agent demo because i think that it's a lot more cool to see the agents thinking and calling on a different tools so now that we have this speaker image what i wanna do is turn this image into a video so we're once again gonna have the agent start to listen to us and i'm going to ask it to turn that speaker by pool summer studio image into a video v effects ad and actually we're just gonna leave it at that and we're gonna see what it's able to do with just a very minimal prompts super low context like mh barely telling it anything yeah i like to do that a lot of the times to just be like alright well what kind of context does it need and i'll know that by giving it like basically no context exactly yeah so it should be interesting because it's gonna get very very creative here one of the cool things about v three which we can look at later is you can tell it to have dialogue you know you can tell it in the video i want the person to say this and the person will say it or you could say you know exactly very explicitly what you want to happen in the video and or basically just gonna let chat t five figure out what it thinks a nice v effects at i think that's a really good thing while it's working here what's really happening is this prompt is getting past the gp five and gp five is looking at this photo and saying what kind of a ad to i think it would be good but it doesn't have the context of where this ad is running mh who this ad is for or exactly some of the basic things you would do when making an at so it's basically gonna fill that in because you have this agent set up in a way it's not gonna come back and ask you a ton of questions it might come back and ask you one mh but it's going to kinda give it its best broadcast exactly yeah so it it's gonna be interesting we'll see what it comes up with right now it's hitting this this tool which will take like a minute to actually make that video but yeah just one thing i thought i'd real quick show you guys is the system prompts of this agent so this is the agent and this is basically its instructions and this is very very minimal i'm saying you know you're a personal assistant agent you have tools to help the user with their request here are the tools you have and i don't wanna get too technical here but i'm doing very minimal prompting for visual ad i'm basically just saying you know always structure your prompts to receive hyper realistic results you can talk about the camera the lighting the composition all this kind of stuff but it's very very minimal so the gp five model has full autonomy here to create whatever it wants look nate has giving you his five ai workflows he uses to build multiple ad campaigns in minutes you can create edit and deploy professional ads across facebook instagram linkedin tiktok you name it from photoshop level images to high quality videos you can build any ad with nate workflows he's given it to you for free scan the qr code or click the link in the description now let's get back to the show and you can see here what it did was it search the ai images folder which is a different folder that i have my google drive right here where we can see we have the speaker by pool summer studio so this is the one that just created for us and we basically just have you know separate environments for different types of pictures and it's important because the agent needs to understand which picture to actually send to v three or nano banana yeah so that's why it's say i think this is what's really important lust is finishing up nate that for people who are unfamiliar with these ai workflow tools what you've built is a custom agent here and the couple of interesting things is it has certain places where you're storing files in this case google drive you have certain brains gp five or claude on it right and it's going to give you output and you are prompted to get through telegram but you could prompt it through a whole host of different systems whatever your system of choice to like send that information but once you get it up and running you shouldn't need to really be in hear that much right you instead you're gonna work on whatever that system where you're doing the prompting and the triggering from and again in this case it's telegram but you don't have to be doing the step by step at in eight and all the time once you've got that workflow build out right yes absolutely hundred percent right and yeah that's exactly what i was hitting on a bit when i was saying like the best scalable systems with the highest roi are the ones where you don't even touch them you don't even know they're running exactly they're just always going on in the back end you know like a a new form submission is submitted on your website okay well we are gonna have an agent in the back end research them reach out to them give the internal salesperson a brief all this kind of stuff and that grows the business and then in turn the system just gets used more and more which is where gets really cool yep great great point there so it comes back and you can see that there's some weird text going on mh and then that's just because we didn't tell it what to do when we gave it very minimal prompts but you could hear it it added music automatically it kinda zooms in on the speaker and it has context to know it as a speaker so it says like you know turnip up summer all day battery waterproof all this kind of stuff so given the fact that we gave it literally no guidance fifteen words yeah exactly given the fact that had nothing to work with that's not too bad for a first iteration what i thought maybe i could show real quick would be one more quick example where let's say we have a different image we'll use like this cologne image so i have this cologne image in my folder mh and we'll we'll do the same thing but this time we'll have it actually you know we'll kinda prompt on making an ad that's tailored towards a specific type of person so first of all i'm gonna say please take the colon cologne image and turn it into a professional looking photo let's say on a bar like where you'd get a drink so we're completely context switching here it was just talking about the speaker right for multiple messages in a row and now it's gonna have to basically reset and try to figure out you know i have to go find that colon cologne image which is in your google drive for everybody following it's searching google drive right exactly yep and it and search both folders and now it's able to see okay i found that image i'm gonna send it over here to the edit image tool to turn that into a better one so wait for this to come back and there we go we can see that now it i was able to hit the edit image tool and once again it's hitting all of these different you know servers in the back end so these ones are hitting the nano banana models this one's hitting the v three model and this is where you can customize you know maybe you wanna use bts image generation or maybe you wanna use the new soar model you can just come in here and basically change what's going on in those tools so we've got a thinking here right now and basically what we're doing now is you're having it create a new kind of professional image and then we're gonna give it some more advanced ad instructions to show that with the right context you can actually generate a good add in product right yep absolutely and so here's the image we got back you can see the words are the exact same it says na voyage it's the same as pretty much the one that i uploaded here where i was just holding that bottle clone and you can also tell in this image it's pretty low quality yeah but we were able to get this one back that you know it looks professional it pretty much the exact same shape and and the words are consistent that's cool it's pretty sick i gotta say right kieran just gave a while it is pretty cool how much is the model the differentiator between the results or the prompt like can you just speak to have valuable it is to iterate on the prompt and then and how much value have you seen increase as the models of continually got better yeah so the prompts are a big deal but the best prompts in you know an ai image generator model from a year ago would not be yeah the worst prompts from like nano banana nano banana is just so so good under the hood better yep infinitely better and also they're getting cheaper and put to run too it used to be like twenty five cents in image and it's it's getting more and more accessible which is pretty cool as well so let's see what we can do here with turning this into a video i'm gonna actually whisper this so i can get a little more context we're gonna say please take that colon cologne on upscale bar image and turn it into a video it should be a professional studio grade video that we can use for advertisements and we want to target this towards let's say men in their forties and the feel of the video ads should be professional and minimal great we'll see what it's gonna do with this so we gave a little more context we give it a little more information as to who they be sort of appealing to and one thing i i wanted to touch on here is remember how i showed you guys the system prompts we're in here we have just like the most basic things about prompting for image imagery videos the reason i did it this is because i built this so it could be a very general template so i could give it out to people and they could play with it yep if you wanted to take on this template you could load in that system prompt with hey here's my business here's the products we make here's the people we appeal to you know our target avatar here's our our brand you know our our mission our vision all this kind of stuff and the more context and more subject matter expertise that you give it related to you and how you want your creative to turn out the better and better it's gonna be yeah and you can also start to give it good examples bad examples so that's where these things get very powerful is with the more context that you give them about you one thing i do nate is i create onboard docs for tools and so let's imagine you're we're creating your flow and you are kinda creating the agent who does the v three videos there's still some amount of knowledge of how to extract like the videos from v three you need but if you're just trying to get something up and running one way you can kinda shortcut that is run our complexity prompt to like build kind of onboard and doc around how to prompt in view three based upon all of the information that shared from like high authority figures that's kinda what i can i try to skew it towards people who have authority in that field and then it creates like an onboard doc and then i upload that doc and i say whenever you're prompt for v three reference your onboard and doc do i think that's a good thing to do and do you kind of do any of that yeah no that's a really really good point and i've done a ton of stuff like that where i use complexity to scrape you know the the best resources for maybe i want an agent that's gonna write html or maybe i want one that's gonna prompt v three and other video models and stuff but that's a really really easy way to leverage ai to leverage other people's expertise and just get that you know like years and years of experience in your hands in a matter of seconds so it's a really good strategy yeah i like to think about it it's like one of my favorite movies at all time was matrix and i always love the scene where he's like i need to learn how to ride the helicopter and it's like didn't need just like learn right helicopter it's a little bit like that like you should still learn these skills but you can kinda shortcut to a pretty good outcome by just scraping data and create an onboarding docs for these agents i think what you're also saying karen is focus your time on learning the skills that are really remain to your like business or your role right well like which is kinda what nate show you don't need to be a master prompt engineer for some of this stuff but you do need to be able to have a a solid workflow and understand your audience and you're targeting and where you're posting and paying for your advertising so that when you run an agent like that you'll get a good result and speaking of good result we just got a video back we did just get a video so this one was like kind of smooth jazz music which is why i smiled when i clicked on it and you can see it's kind of slowly zooming in and also what's interesting is we have words here again right and so we could basically tell it we don't want any words on screen we can tell it to have certain dialogue you can also see that it ends off over here with like a black screen with a kind of a call to action and this is where you could basically give it here's my logo or here's the name of this product and it could insert this kind of stuff in different areas based on what you want the advertisement to look like one of the things that i've being working on with v three is i am trying to create a like three minute video clip and one of the you know problematic things with v three which is interesting because store two has kinda solved this through their ai model and we kinda talked about that on a previous episode which is character consistency or in this case it would be product consistency right and for what we mean for people who are watching this is like if you took a eight second clip that you have but you wanted the video to be twenty four seconds or you wanted the video to be longer than eight seconds you have to create multiple v three videos stitch together but you need the aesthetics of the product or the character to look consistent across videos and store two can do that for individuals because it's using the ai avatar of yourself that you create when you actually sign up to the app mh have you played a ryan with like longer videos using v three like a a longer ad that would need some form of consistency across product or characters or things like that yeah so the way that i would do that is essentially you wanna create your base source of truth files so whether you have you know a video over or a picture of your product that's just against like a plain white background so it's just isolating just the image and then you can feed that image in all of these videos and then you could do the same with you know a character that you want to stay consistent right and so you're just giving it sort of like the source of truth but no you make a great point v three is definitely a little behind on that aspect of being able to create these long running consistent videos in the way that that sore two now can do really well yeah the way they sell the character because this this problem is really smart on sorta it's one of my favorite things they did yeah it's very very cool so i guess at this point what i think i could show real quick is just what's actually going on in these three tools and why ended it in is so powerful so we've kinda covered that this agent has a a brain and it's autonomous and it can call on any of these six tools that it has and for example in this one it called on the image to video tool and if i open up this tool what you guys will see is it's actually a separate workflow that i built and what's cool about this is this is an image to video tool and now i can have this image to video tool hook up to any agent so i could build ten different agents and in and i could just say okay i already have an image to video tool i just have to connect it here and now if i ever want this agent to turn an image to video i've already got that sort of like module built that's cool so it's very very scalable very modular and now we have all these little like reusable pieces that we can use in our builds internally or builds for clients and stuff like that that is super cool like you can build reusable tools across your agents i love that yeah it's super cool because now have you know like i made like a personal assistant agent that is one of my best performing youtube videos and i had like email actions calendar actions contact agent actions and now whenever i build anything where i need an any email actions i can just hook it up to my email because now the email agents the one that has all tools it has all the prompting there and it just makes you know your your time of building something way way shorter and it was already shorter in the first place with this no code software but once you use it more you you're able to build things a lot quicker too so it's very cool if you're watching along here nate and you really want to get started build your first agent build some tools that you can integrate into that agent and do some of these tasks one of the tricky things for the average user like someone who's not really automation first or technical first is where do i start right what do i even build an agent four what are some ideas that i could get to automate things that when i was working in zapier that was like one of the harder things that users had is like they could think of maybe one thing where they couldn't think of five things mh and i'm curious if you were kinda give advice how would you start on trying to figure out what are some good places to start to build your kind of first agent your first kinda automation and you're obviously a power user of any in but what tool would you use if you're just starting out like if you wanted to kinda take what you've done here and and kinda get going and then built some stuff yeah it's a really good question so when i first start to think about you know the first thing that that it came on my mind was don't run before you walk and so i think when i see a lot of people getting into issues when they jump into a tool like in or make dot com is they wanna go straight to an agent because they see videos of agents they hear the word agent and they think that's like that's cool that's what i wanna build and if you don't have a solid foundation or a good grasp on json or variables and the way that data moves from left right in a workflow then jumping into an agent is just gonna be way too complicated so really what i would start to think about is i wanna build a simple automation first where i'm transferring data from one place to another and i'm doing something maybe i don't even need to use ai yet and that's actually something that we've found with a lot of our our clients was when we started to dive into some of their processes to understand like what would be the first project we work on together we ended up scoping it out and realizing this isn't even ai this is just going to be a very simple automation it's gonna be a quick one we can spend that up very fast but more importantly it's going to save a lot of time for your you and your team because really when i'm building things my mindset is how can i eliminate as much ai is as possible and you know is great but it's a black box and it means that things are gonna be a little bit more non deter so if i was starting right now i would think about what's something that i do every day every week and when i do that process i would start to write down the steps so you know step one is this step two is that step three is this and if i do those three steps in that order every single time that is a great great use case for something that can be automated yeah so i would basically just you know process map that out and then get into i would say to go to end in because there's so many resources out there they're growing really quick and they're gonna be easier you to use but if if something like make dot com looks a little less intimidating to you then i jump into that i wanna say real quick i think that some people spend a little bit too much time worrying about you know i'm gonna take a gamble which tool do i go all in on which tool do i learn mh but really i think when you're learn any of these tools it's about the foundations it's about figuring out what can be automated where ai should go when to use an agent and if you can pass variables anywhere on a workflow you'll be able to jump into any tool very quickly and apply your knowledge because they're all doing the same thing really behind the scenes so i wouldn't worry too much about which tool you go with right right what is the most powerful agent you've built it could be the one you've shown us i'm just curious like when you built like what's the agent you've built and we're like okay i wanna dedicate all of my time to this what you've done right you create content this is your business what was the unlock for you that you're were like wow this agent is insane that's a really good question so when you said the word powerful to me what i'm thinking of is not what can the agent do and doesn't have the most tools because i've built something like this and i don't we're not even gonna dive into this because this is just it's probably going to turn a lot of people off but this is like a very very powerful agent it can take action and email google drive calendar it has image video and actions it can post online it can search social media all this kind of stuff but when i hear the word powerful when i think of is what system adds the most value or has you know had the biggest roi for me or for clients and really when i think of something that's powerful i'm thinking of something that has saved me a lot of time or saves a team a lot of time and those are very very simple automations that are extremely linear and there's not any decisions that need to be made there's very minimal ai and all it does is it goes okay step one two three four five six seven eight and everything every single time we run it goes step one two three four five six seven eight because that cuts down all of the non deter decision making and in automation boring is beautiful predictability is your best friend so really the most powerful system that we've probably built is somewhere in the sales process a very simple flow where like i said earlier lead form is submitted an agent immediately or researches them provides our internal salesperson with a brief or even just reaches out to that person you know shoot them a call or just shoot him an email and starts to nurture that lead right away because when you think about like where does money get left on the table where do lead slip through the cracks it's a lot of times because the the speed delete you know that's super important and so if a a business isn't getting back to their leads while they're the hottest while they're most ready to buy then you're losing a lot of money so i talked to earlier about kind of the flywheel of a scalable system if we can build a system that in turn grows the business as the business grows the system is gonna get used more and the system starts to get used more and more without the team even knowing it's getting used more because they don't touch it at all right a system like this or a personal assistant which is what people wanna build right away they always say i want my own personal assistant mh that's great because you know hey move this meeting there or get my emails from this or whatever and that might help grow the business because maybe you can be a little bit more productive on a day to day but as the business grows are you gonna be using that personal assistant more i don't necessarily think so you know it doesn't scale the same way as some of these linear automations right i think that's true i think that's really good advice as well for where people in terms of where they could start i think you said a couple of really important things which is hey like what do you do day to today like right down what you do day to today and you could just give that actually because i was showing us someone how they could do this you can actually just give that to chat and it will literally build you a table of like workflows that you can build and actually you can ask it you can say hey like i'm gonna use this tool it will build you tutorials if you said like i'm gonna use n it will give you tutorials and end and end to build each of those workflows now we suggest you go to nate youtube channel because you'll have better details chat but like to get started and then to your point i think what i'm seeing is like there is a whole cult of eight and workflow the bigger the better on x in these social channels and so to your point i think it's really good advice to start with something small get a quick win and and go from there and so i think it's this super cool like very very cool and nate for everybody watching or are you gonna share the sample like basic image workflow for everybody i think you are right we'll link up to that that'll be down in the comments and so if you're just getting started with eight n and you want like a early building block what nate walk through here you'll be able to go and basically kind of run some experiments and see how does this stuff work so that you could then maybe internalize and i think back to what kieran was just saying what are the problems that i have where that good consistent automation could really solve them and maybe you need ai maybe you don't i think that was a really valuable point that you made nate that sometimes automation without ai is still very very valuable absolutely it's where i think a lot of businesses are now starting to get into the mindset of automating things because the word ai was put in front of it and then they realize how much opportunity there is to just you know do some basic data transfer that really really saves a lot of time and yeah i think one more thing i wanted to say that would be probably applicable to a lot of businesses and businesses right now is a good question to ask is you know what sop do i have what standard operating procedures do i have where on that document it probably explicitly lists the ten steps in that order and it shows you know who's involved in each step it shows the data source from each step and it shows that the transformation that should happen in that process and that's a really really good place to start because typically like i said that's a very predictable process because if you've went far enough to build that document sop then that means it's probably happening frequently enough where people need to refer to that so that's a really good place to start as well very cool yeah so i wanted to touch on one more thing about the outputs that we were receiving from this agent this is a very very general high level like i said it was made to be a template for everyone in the audience to be able to just play with and see how it works and this agent doesn't know that it's always making images for you know v ads or u content or maybe it's making you know stories it doesn't know what it's doing and so earlier when kind of alluded to the importance of prompting these ai image or video generation models when v three drops we were seeing some really cool stuff and people were like how did you make that and it's all in the prompt so i i found a few examples on x that i wanted to show you guys that you may have seen when this whole thing drops but this is an example of a really really intense prompt here so you can see there's a description there's a style there's a camera there's very specific elements that go into the way that ai interprets the request and now what we see here is this eight second clip where i think that ikea would be more than happy to put this in a commercial yeah this is incredible so good like that is insane and i found another example like one for apple like an apple watch you know like this is the kind of stuff that would take a long long time and probably a lot of money to actually create that was apple this one looks like it's playstation like we have all these different ways that we can use prompting to make these ai models really really specialized to create things you know like that that jordan sc that nike shoe there's just so many different things you can do here and it's all about the prompting so the reason i wanted to throw that out there is because maybe you looked at the outputs we got here and you were like that looked awful first of all you know the big upgrade was the fact that we have like these consistent things where now i can take a picture of cologne in my hand and it can turn into an actual video but you get in here and you make the prompts better and better and also like these videos have exact prompts so you can kinda copy that structure exactly and now you can exactly just create some really really cool stuff yeah hundred percent and nate we just did a show with roy flynn and he walked us through bunch of creative workflows using wee dot ai i which is really cool creative workflow tool which kind of builds on what you were just showing how if you really can build specific creative prompting you can get really remarkable high scale creative results absolutely absolutely i remember when i first started doing any and stuff and like my very first freelancing i got was building an automation to help this person automate their linkedin posting and so you morning was going off it it knew about their business it was researching the industry and it was making his linkedin post for their approval and i remember the asking me we get some images put in here like ai generated images and i was like no it is not there yet the words would be all jumbled it would just look awful but now we really are at a place where right i believe we can't do that totally and you could see how simple this is you know someone would submit a form of what they wanted the agent would do research and create the post this agent was trained on specifically building prompts for linkedin graphics you know like maybe there's a little icon and then there's like some text and then actually this was using open image generation model but it was that simple and these agents you can see they have no decisions to be made so we're really really keeping them on the guard rails that we want and this is exactly what i mean by step one step two step three step four step five step six every single time it happens in that order and this was a really really powerful system because now that business doesn't have to do any more research they wake up and they have three posts with graphics that go along with those posts and they can just approve which ones they want to actually go out love that that's such a great simplistic example that everyone watching is gonna get the value of immediately totally yeah and we could also link the video this is of free template as well that people could play around with if they want please we'll link both of those up nate you given us the ability to create awesome image or video ads showed us the basics and fundamentals of building simple and less simple agents using ad and i think it should be an eye opener everyone out there that way more is possible with automation and ai when they work together then probably most people understand to solve their day to day problems and we recommend just going and playing with some of these and applying them to your own problems so you can actually see the value that you could be getting by kind of adopting and learning the skill mh and i think that there's a lot of value in just you know exploring with before even think about automation like a lot of people that i talked to don't even know what per complexity yeah or they don't know understand what gamma is and like y all of these tools that take no absolutely no technical knowledge to get into like you could actually just go to like google gemini and start playing around with images and videos there and then the unlock is when you understand now i see what it can do but if i can have this running automatically all the time without me talking to it it just unlocks a whole new world so it's a really good point there care anything else you ready wrap no i'm ready to go play with some ai work for us this is super cool gonna go play with all these templates this is bit awesome thank you nate thank you for everyone watching today's show we'll see you next time on marketing green awesome thanks guys

okay on today's show this episode has completely blown my mind have rory flynn who is the best person i've ever met at using ai to generate amazing quality images at mass scale and he's really gonna walk us through how you use a few tools to do the work of photo shoots massive design teams add creative teams for your business regardless of what your businesses is or the size that it is let's get to today's show roy welcome to marketing against the green thanks for having you guys really excited about this maybe roy give us a little bit of an introduction to how you started to use ai why you started to use ai to kinda do all of these creative experiments and really figured out how to scale imagery and video specifically yeah man but wouldn't say this was the goal just sort of how how things worked out i i feel like that probably happens to a lot of people we were running a digital marketing agency primarily focused in paid media and email marketing so you know performance and retention but we were great at adding clients we were bad at backfill the work so we could good at sales and marketing but when it came to actually like you know scaling the agency and doing it at of the pace that we were doing it you know just became evident that we were not skilled enough to necessarily do that at the time and then you know sort of took it upon myself because i felt like i created the problem you know selling a little bit too hard getting people in the door and i was like well you know i gotta figure out a way to make my team sort of not hate me and walk out on me on this stuff and it's hard to you know keep clients that way too when you're always behind the ball and always just moving you know at a light speed and not really paying close attention to a lot of stuff so just dove right in and i think it was mid journey version four at the time mh that we just saw and it came out and i was like so like got image of the hoping a bale jacket and i was like okay come on i remember that yeah and i was like alright let me just get in here and see what happens you know one night eight hours later i you know blood shot eyes basically like you know bags under the eyes like it was there all night just do i do this for my clients if that was like it so we just jumped right in after that and how to figure out then how to make it translate how to make it work and then also how i could like teach other other people because i couldn't just be the only one right so right sort of like started this whole evolutionary process and then that led to where else can we use it what other tools can we use where does this fit in so it's sort of like that whole snowball type effect but then it get it got a lot crazier from there it's it's way different now yeah tools have come a long way what's actually one of the most recent tools you've been blown away by in terms of its ability to create creative assets so we to me has been like the first like wee u have you spell w e a v y dot ai it's very similar to come ui it's a little bit more user friendly you know it's node based it's a workflow building tool but it just has access to you know as api access like a hundred different tools so so you can use any of them it's just how you creatively sort of string them together and build stuff so mh i love it it's simple it's clean it does what i like and it's easy to share and it's scalable so you know someone builds a workflow once the whole team can have it whole team can use it so you know you don't need the entire team working on it figuring it out you just need one good person who's totally interested and is like just laser focused and you can build the whole team around that so i love this tool not a paid shi for them just i just really like it very cool it's like a zapier for creative workflows yeah yeah it's very similar the other thing that is that's pretty interesting about it is to me it's like a precursor to agents so if you can go in there and test and build workflows you know to it's a little bit easier to go figure out in we than it is in like or something like that to just like get the flow down get the process down and then that can be translated you know we've vibe coded a few tools off of v workflows and things like that so it's like a great testing ground it's a great team tool it's a great creative tool i just think it's super versatile right now so you're gonna walk us through a bunch of this which i'm excited about but what kind of my question for you into that is like what's the aha in all of this like you talked about like you were up for eight hour straight you've been building a lot like what's the moment for you where you were like whether it's set a creative a campaign whatever you're like oh shit like this is the game has changed for me it was legitimately with the first time i got asked to speak on stage it was about four months into doing this stuff i was so green and like you know i'm talking about building like mood boards with mid journey and stuff like that it wasn't revolutionary but i did it at a performance marketing conference they asked me they they begged me and i was like i you know begged maybe too hard but they asked me about two weeks ahead of time they wanted to slot something in ai you know i take that back and i was like guys i have never spoken on stage let alone talked about this stuff out loud you know like i've only posted about like fun stuff on social media never done like the actual business side of at the operational side because we i started building like a business case around it to make sure that it was actually valuable right at the time which is twenty twenty three ish early twenty twenty three which sounds crazy now but i got up on stage and first off i was about to die you know like i i was a really was really that was not my thing they were like they're were like are you're gonna be on side stage and this you know i'm like okay cool how many people out they're like two hundred i'm like i think i think i can like maybe handle that than the day before they're like you're gonna be on the main stage i'm like how many people at they're like two thousand i'm like that that was not what we part of being there and that was now so i'm having like a whole meltdown but i got it up there and just i just kinda like let it rip you know i didn't really have any public speaking experience just sort of like talked off the slides just like rapid fire one thing after the next and i got hound when i got off stage i i had no business at the time i had no sort of like i was sort of on my own just kind of figuring out what i was gonna do with it i had no offer i had nothing and the minute i got off that stage it was just like the doors open to everything so i was like okay there's something here what were you showing you were showing like prompts to create graphics a mid journey yeah was basically walking through the process of how we operationalize like prompting at scale so it was like how did we take an image and break it down into its core parts to then build basically prompt formula so that we could scale that out to anyone could use it like templates yeah and that was yeah it was sort of like that core idea of d construction and then that that led to everything it was like oh this is how everything works with ai sort of like the the gate keeping sort of option there well its ability to reverse engineer assets and create templates that then can be reusable by people is one of the most powerful skills it has and probably the most widely under used like custom cheap are widely be on use because i don't think people realize you can create onboard and docs for them and then just have them be experts and niche you know sets the skills and you can just have a team of experts but that's the other one something kip and i have talked about is it's a time of like great change everyone is like oh my god everything is gonna change and my role is gonna be obsolete and what do i even do with my life whereas it's also a great time for just doing the george like i'm gonna do stuff and then i gotta ask to talk about that stuff and i have an entire business to around that stuff right because you were curious you're like this is super interesting i'm just gonna go and like figure it out and i think it's a great example for our listeners is like now at the time if you have curiosity and you have ten and you have persistence you can actually just do stuff and that stuff might blow up pretty quickly it's like if you like to create how do you not like this how do you not like it exactly good to make stuff like yeah i've never been able to make more stuff whether you know it's digital but whatever it's making things it's the golden age of making things yeah crafts okay so speaking of that you've been grinding away and making stuff for a few years now on this topic right and you're gonna show us kind of the best of the best and you're gonna show us some of like the most important things you've learned and so i'd love for you to kinda take us behind the curtain and do a little bit of up totally i can show you sort of like this slide and these things that i've had have not changed in three years they still work right like this is this the they still make sense like i use them almost every day so that's where i think like something like the d construction right like i talk about sort of the three main skills a lot of times that i think are super important in this era of ai it's like not you don't have to know every tool you need to have like core competencies in a few areas and you can use any tool it's like being able to drive any car you know it's like the same thing so sort of how i like to look at it but really like you know going back to again tying into that story if we're trying to create photo realistic assets right like that was our main focus especially on the marketing side we need things to look real right like it was cool to make the futuristic like spaceships and stuff like that but like we needed stuff to put in our emails so you know we started using this type of thinking it's like if we wanna make a photo like what is a photo this sounds so like intrinsic and out there but it's like what is a photo like what actually are the core categories or like what's actually controllable within a photo so you know this basic little structure here was sort of how we looked at it and it was like okay you know these are also essentially like what i'd call like the non negotiable like in ai if you if you don't prompt forward it's gonna be provided for you anyway so this is sort of like the core elements and it's this doesn't have to be how you prompt every time you can do more you can do less it's just like if you wanted to control the main aspects of an image like this is what you'd look for right so we'd always start with like that shot or photo depending on you know the perspective where it is how it's captured right so it's like a the difference between like a close up image and a drone shot is like radically different so again tells a totally different story you your subject and your action like who's in it what are they doing like the core sort of idea of the image you have your environment where it takes place the color scheme so always gonna be colors in an image of course even if it's black and white those are colors right this is where we sort of hit paid early on was this know utilizing different cameras and lenses because like you've used different cameras you have different visual aesthetic so depending on you know what the brand was you know sort of like what their vibe was and their visual aesthetic was know the difference between prompting for an iphone photo and a polaroid like it's totally different visual signature so being able to control that look at things like film stock things of that nature to sort of like guide the output was really important to us and then lens of course you know to difference between using a you know six millimeter lens and a two hundred millimeter lens you know if you're going super wide and tight it if you're going super narrow and in like it's very different so like those were really helpful for us and then of course we look at things like composition how things are constructed there is a visual hierarchy in sort of every single image if it's professional at least you know the mood and emotion like that's always been baked to us because it was the vibe how do we set the vibe how do we like sort of bring that out you know we need to give it a little bit more energy than what was original the original like sort of ai idea of that you know lighting of course every single image has lighting whether you like it or not like if you didn't have lighting there just be a black image so like those are like the core sort of things again of course textures there's texture in every single image details and modifiers i put this in here because of course there's always other additional elements when you look at things like props and you know cars and whatever things might be in the background so it was understanding that this is what's happening in every single image no matter what so why don't we build structure around that mh so when we did that we sort started thinking about it like visual building blocks where it's like okay each one of these things makes up the image right but if we're gonna prompt and we sort of isolate each variable in this equation which is creating an image then it's also you know from the iteration standpoint which we all know happens all the time then if we have you know lighting represented in our prompt and we don't like the lighting we know it's in there we know what to go change we can do it quickly we can iterate faster so we're not endlessly re prompting right can i ask a quick question roy think of that as a listener i think this is really cool because what you're gonna show is the amounts of time and effort you put to actually create in context for the prompt like this is all context of what good looks like and is your background photography or did you use ai in of itself to actually craft these building blocks like how did you know these are the most important parts of a photo it was definitely a lot of trial and error in the beginning i have a graphic design background so i have like probably half of the technical knowledge of a photographer because you know also working with a lot of brands in this space we would always know ro running photos shoots things of that nature but you know learning more of like the technical side of photography helped a lot you know again like i didn't know what each specific lens did or what a focal length was prior to ai but it it's like forced learning because then i was like i know how this looks from looking at it all the time and working with it as a designer just to know like what the term was for it so you starting to understand what like boca was or things like that i'm like okay now i know what this says i've been looking at it my whole life basically but didn't know that there was a term for it so definitely brought my interest in photography way up now yeah now you can sort of i don't wanna say i can speak the language but like if someone says something to me i have an idea of what they're talking about yeah makes sense because you can also your interest goes up when you can like do real things much quicker yeah like the payoff and learning anything is like doing the thing that's like the dividend hit but it usually takes you a long time to to get to do that and whereas this you can just sit in your room and do the thighs and photos overnight hundred percent and i think that's what sort of got me early on it wasn't just i was interested in the business i was like interested for myself like god i use as like a decompression sort of thing early on just like let me dump all of my days frustrations into an image generator and like let's just create you know yeah and i was just it felt very therapeutic early on like this is fun like i'm not doom scrolling on twitter like i'm like building little worlds and mid majority and like having a lot of fun with it so yeah you know underrated thing i think of all the ai stuff is just if you find a tool that you like just go have fun with it yeah just go create it doesn't have to be for a purpose yeah i agree okay keep going but i love what you're really telling people it's like whatever you're going to in this case just could be anything you got it like understand how it works reverse engineer it get the building blocks right because you need to know what variables you can control because the variables you can control are the things that are ultimately leading to the output and whether you're getting what you're trying to make or not correct one hundred percent and that's this sort of thinking right here this will work for video this will work for music this will work for system prompt this will work for anything it's just like what needs to be present and what can be controlled and then from there even if you're asking an l to do this for you it doesn't have to be like off the top of your head you know you can start of like build the core building blocks and then roll from there because once you have these then everything becomes a lot easier right what's funny in that slide you were just on literally somebody watching on youtube could have just screenshot at that slide right mh and then had some image and put it in chat gp or anything and say hey tell me what the building blocks are for this image and learn that way yes within five or ten minutes you would have a pretty good understanding of what this all actually means and how it works hundred percent i think that's the best part of it it's relatively simple once you have the formula correct that's just getting the formula i love that that's our part because that's what we did was like oh okay we if we have the building blocks right now we can build a prompt formula which becomes essentially like mad lips for you know using ai like i don't have to i can fill this in myself or i can ask at the time chad gp to do it for the team who might have not had as much experience in the design field or in the photography field like people that just wanted to create as well so basically just took those building blocks threw them into a prompt formula separate them by commas and let it run from there because it was like alright well if this is like the operating structure and ai you know if we're were using chat jb at the time to help us fill this in we could also ask for ten prompts we could have asked for fifty prompts for it to just fill in the blanks total so i was like okay we can start to scale this now so this little piece here basically started an entire business this this little prompt formula wow this is which is kinda crazy that it was that you know at the time it wasn't looking like it was that important but now i see how much i use it now and just about everything it's obviously updated and been tweaked and manipulated a million times but this is sort of like the distilled version like i also like to think about this as like prompting for especially for images doesn't always have to be for shot stuff like i like to give the condensed version so i don't wanna go overboard and write these like five paragraph prompts because isolating what's wrong majority of time and troubleshooting is way harder than you think because it's just like one little word here could screw the whole thing up out of three paragraphs so like give it the condensed version deal which is like you know if you boil a pot of water like all the way down to the bottom like that's what i wanna give it first then i'll keep adding water to it just sort of like you know make it fit so i think that's a really important point that you're being start simple and add versus starting complex and taking away mh because also you know it's much easier to start simple and then then need to see what you can do again back then too it was you were not getting the type of hit rate that you are now which is everything is a lot closer to getting a like a hundred percent on that first shot back then it was like it was slot machine like oh maybe you'll get it and you know now it's definitely more so the thing was like you'd throw in these prompts like motors sport photography red bull one f f1 car on a race track you have the color schemes here you'd you have the warm tones the thirty five millimeter shallow depth the field dramatic sun set backlighting lighting center framing motion blur which just seemed like this random collection of words with no rhyme or reason right but you'd run it and then you get something that was like oh okay like this is actually listening and you realize that you have you know motor sport photo you race track like that's represented right warm tones you have that yellow orange and two you obviously have the car driving you get the radial blur on the tires it's moving you can tell that you have the blue red yellow obviously represented thirty five millimeter shallow depth of field if you're not familiar with that it's like basically a wider angle storytelling lens but shallow depth the field is like portrait mode on your iphone so you have the subject in focus in the foreground and the background board center framing right we have our motion blurring in the background you can see this stops moving from left to right and then we have sunset and then we have back light which means it's behind the subject so like seemingly just random words but you have control it's like we controlled the non negotiable so it listen to us and then we can build upon this if we wanted to but now we know that it listens right now we can go at it rate it so some of this stuff it was like this was sort of super super helpful because then the team could be like okay i see how this stuff works and then it's easy to iterate there's so much more stuff like that it's kinda crazy at the end of the day when you start going with it look rory just gave you the playbook on how he uses ai now he's giving you his exact workflow so you can copy him you give ai one brief it spits out one hundred assets social posts email copy blog drafts you name it this is literally roy process packaged up so you can start using it today scan the qr code or click the link in the description now let's get back to the show one quick question before we get into some of the other things you're gonna show i'm curious right so that actual prompt took you a long time to figure out and refine i assume right that is kinda like your that kinda drives a big part of your business how do you think about giving prompts away like if i was watching this i've got a huge one of value next i could just clip your prompt and now i'm kind of as good as whatever version of you was when you were doing that prompt make sure you have like more sophisticated ones now but i you know shortcut up my learning pretty rapidly because it's not the same as like when you create an ebook to teach someone how to do imagery they have to like still consume the ebook they have to like learn no skills and they have to get better at that craft now prompts i can literally basically take your skill skills it's like the you know them i was loved like the matrix where he's like wanna learn how to fly in helicopter you gonna need to like learn to fly the helicopter like prompt is quite similar and that i can be as good as you where you were then by just taking your prompts so how do you feel about that because i think about that a lot in terms of some of the prompts that i've giveaway away yeah i'm honestly sort of have like a very open nature about this i feel like everyone should be learning this i feel like everyone should be on board i feel like a sense of responsibility also which sounds weird to like especially to my audiences who had been following me for a long time and i feel like i have to give a lot because as a graphic designer like i was replaced by fiber right you know like that was i i felt this before like i once fiber came along and i was no longer necessary because i could not compete with fiber was not mad at the people that worked at five fiber i was mad at the people who are making decisions you know just going with the cheap option because that's just the cheap option right maybe i wasn't that good that could be my fault as well but i feel like a lot of people were feeling that same way right now they're feeling that same sort of like burden of like this is coming and like i might not be needed so i feel like if we can get everyone at least to a good level of understanding of how to do this then they can be sort of i don't wanna say irr replaceable but they're valuable valuable to a company valuable to themselves they can go and build something if they want to like you know i seemingly just dreamed up out of nowhere but i wanna help it sounds cheesy but i really do because i i feel like everyone is overly stressed about this and you know if we can alleviate and make people see see like see the matrix you know like when neo actually sees it for the first time like i love getting people to that moment once they get there i know they're fine it's just like you have to get to that moment of like oh i see what's going on here yep so makes sense hope that answers the question yeah yeah okay i it it sounds like you've kinda progressed on to some other workflows yeah weaving now is like my playground right like we've taking that sort of idea and then blowing it out it's like how do we take that idea of like oh now we have a formula and then how do we blow it into a number of different sort of realms and how do we sort of create the multiverse because i think that's the place that we're at now which is really interesting to me and image isn't just an image anymore like an image to me is like the foundation of ai and that's my own opinion but like an image can now become a video an image can now become a three d asset an image can become a piece of text it can become code it can become a gif it's sort of like branching right like you can go into a video extract a frame and then take that in a million different directions it's all sort of like this now infinite branching of reality which can be overwhelming so it's kinda hard to you go like narrow it down a little bit every once in a while but the wee stuff was really really important like i'll show you one workflow to start which is where basically again like solving common problems like we know i know a lot of people in the e commerce industry especially in the fast fashion space right like they have you know constant turnover of product but a lot of times to get that product photographed uploaded into the website you know live and ready to go is not easy because it's expensive and if you're doing that with four thousand skews like it's not necessarily the most time efficient process if it's only gonna be live for a season or a couple months so it's it's something that we did early on this is like sort of like a test case to be like oh does this get us somewhere does this get us into a place of like okay like we can we can start to solve problems like this which met with a lot of good response so it was something that we started to you know build upon like this was the building block for everything else so this was sort of like the origin of it where it was like okay we can take you know a way to sort of art direct your model control your clothing put them together and then iterate the photo shoot right so this was a very at the time well i say sample this is just like easy way to show it definitely a more efficient way that we've sort of reverse engineered from this but it was sort of the building blocks right so this thing looks really crazy it's not necessarily that crazy when you get into it because just duplicated stuff but if i was gonna show you what was going on here this is basically modular prompting just so people who are not maybe marketing do or ai do what you have here is essentially you're using we to build a workflow you've got some workflows here but that workflow is basically to replicate a traditional physical photo shoot mh using ai yes and it's to trying to solve that exact problem you were saying just a few minutes ago it's like oh how do you shoot four thousand items in a cost effective way that looks good for those items that are only gonna be on a website for like ninety days exactly and that becomes really painful and you were like oh there has to be a better way and so you built this as kind of a foundational workflow and you're doing this for shorts but you could wear clothing or shoes or whatever but you could do it for literally anything it's just like edit this is a workflow to replicate a photo shoot if you were gonna do a photo shoot for something you could then now replace that photo shoot with ai now you're gonna walk us through think a little bit of like the building blocks of the workflow totally that's a great way to sum it up that's it the exactly the thought process behind it so like again this looks super confusing with all the spaghetti strings but when you put it together this is really just modular prompting so it's using essentially sort of the same building blocks that we talked about here you know our photo our shot type you know we have our gender perspective age ethnicity body types we're doing like a almost like a video game style like create a character right where we're running it into this thing called the con which will just combine all these pieces together and then use that as a prompt to generate the image which is cool now because we can also take our clothing that we wanna upload into here so he's wearing it every time we have some prompt we have a system prompt here which if anyone's not familiar with system prompt it's like the prompt that guides a custom gp so it works in the background but it basically says do this every time it's like custom instructions so this one's not even that crazy it's just describe each article of clothing essentially so we have in text and visual form as well to help sort of provide it now this was done before the nano banana the you know flex context craze the you know sea dream everything like that so had to be a little bit more intentional with what we're doing is the foundation still work which is why i wanna show it because sometimes the best way to get it when you're troubleshooting can i just touch on that's we'll kinda walk our users through what's happening so the first workflow you showed us through allows you to create the quote unquote model you would usually have and then the one below that is i i assume you're dynamically like wherever you use this workflow you're given it a bunch of imagery and because you're going to take that imagery and use another prompt you need a system prompt to convert each image into a text based description that you can then like feed into like a master prompt that's gonna on like combine the model with the clothing then that's a hundred percent correct that's a the way better way of describing it than i just that's great i i actually didn't even think understand it that way here and that was a really good summary that was awesome that's perfect yeah so we're using like ll here when we view you have the option to do you know basically use any of the ones that are available between claude gemini meta llama but it's just a great way to to utilize this instead of me describing it via text it's just giving it a same idea like a system prompt just describe this stuff and we'll use this one over and over again so you know we run that gemini to again to combine it which is the prompt of the model and then the prompt of the close plus the image of the model and the images of the clothes and we put them all into in this case it was chat gp yeah again this is still this is built like about five months ago so it's just that the the core idea is what works here because i'll show you on the next one sort of how that you know expanded from here so it was like okay we have our one image we upscale it and now we have you know we have our shirt our our shorts our shoes it's equal local yeah and then that's how we started to build batch it was like okay once we have this it's the one image again like once you have again one prompt equals a thousand one image equals a thousand same thing we'd branch it into the realities like this one is the like a building block of batch processing here what we're doing essentially we're creating a prompt saying describe six different camera angles for this model focusing on creating a three sixty degree view you know the we give it the idea of the perspectives we wanna a front view side profile facing left side profile right three quarter angle etcetera you know make sure it's a full body shot we want head and feet and keeping the environment the exactly the same with know it's keep these prompts shorter than thirty words and separate them with a star this is like the whole batch processing thing so the goal here is to take this create six more prompts so they come out in one single you output from an lo it's my sound confusing and try to try to keep it simple but the reason we wanna have it end with a star is so we can use this thing called array which will split every prompt by the star so every time you see a star in here that means you know separate new prompt mh right so then we're able to split them out and then we can run them to these different list selector view so it's basically each individual one is a prompt and then we can go run them simultaneously you know what hilarious about this i have a couple of friends actually who are like real photographers and go and do fashion shoots and i i suspect i had told them like a year ago i think that course skill you're going to to really learn is like you're gonna really understand automation arrays technical yeah like what are you talking about that's on to do with me i'm like doing all the art and you're like splitting these into arrays so i can use them an auto create different camera shots it's it really as an example of like how every single field because of ai becomes so technical hundred percent it's like art but there's a lot of science right there's a lot of science and grid not all this it's a weird blend like i i kind of love it where you can be creative but technical at the same time which you know i think probably limited fields and and where you can do that but like foundational then right trying to teach something like this right this is basically like a batch processing engine so like this will work you just change the prompt right like then just duplicate that three times and just change what i'm asking for in the prompt which is like you know i want lower half shots closer up i want you know more action poses or i want more lower half shots or this one might be i want him like in action doing something walking not looking at the camera more like b roll style so this overall is cool but like people don't wanna look at that most of the time so having these outputs here which is great just attaching an output so it's telling the system that i wanna make this sort of like a an app right like we can make this an app wow or we're just really good where we're putting in put in like the actual description of the model but do the description of the close and then we push enter and then it's kind of my blowing things out at once oh my god like every single retail all the who does these kind of like asos and all these that do at these large a amounts of photography for every single piece of clothing that they have i mean like their world is is si different definitely and hardly any of them are doing it right i mean there's some there's definitely some you're doing it for some yeah but that's it this is like the watered down version of what that is because that's obviously so much more quality control than is here this is just a sort of like an example piece of like taking and run with it i'm like i said if i'm giving people stuff like please go ahead and use this you know definitely share these workflows with everyone you know hopefully if you guys drop it in the comment section or something so i wanna take a look at it yeah we'll put it all in the in the comments and everything so that they can find you and find these totally and to be clear kinda of workflow was generate the model generate the clothes and then you use this batch in process to generate that person doing different actions in different shots of their the clothes on the body that person is like ai generated like i could so you haven't uploaded a photo of a model no that has being created yeah control the character right like creating the character close are the only thing that might exist in this yeah so and the only dot ai generated thing is the clothing that you're trying to you know demonstrate basically have you done anything like this with video because the tool i am obsessed with right now and we're trying to build out some cool stuff is v three yeah no you know you still have to keep character consistency across a second clips which you can do using flow but i'm wondering like can you give us a quick yeah demo of anything you've done video wise video wise so a lot of this stuff what i'm doing here is is precursor to video so all these and i would use i would take this essentially these still and then i use them as key keyframes so as a way for us to as a little tip for anyone who's doing fashion stuff right when you have like a shot like this you know up top and you wanna scroll down to the bottom here if you were just to say like you know go down to this guy's shoes right like you know camera travels down to his shoes problem is like he's not gonna translate the logo on the pants or the shoes because it doesn't have any sort of context of that so you'd wanna go from like keyframes which is start here and here tools like cli loom runway i believe has them as well like you wanna go here this image to here so that you get the shirts you get the branding on the shirt you get the branding on this shorts and you get the branding on the shoes right so that's sort of like the idea okay so just to quickly say something because i think you've taught me something here as well so you actually create an imagery first and then the video tools to actually the animate those images yeah is that what you're doing whereas i'm actually just trying to create everything in the video tools should i create of source for control purposes only if you like really need precision okay like i i think text to video is more capable than image to video in that case but when you're looking at precision and you need to have like all these fine details that are exact across all of the you know the images again on the brand side you work with a lot of these companies it's you know it's very nit picked of course especially because it's ai so if i can control the images i can control the video got it that's sort of how i look at everything but i do love text to video as an option for just about everything just as a quick aside what you did show us like how i get the files and everything else that you were about to go into you can do this for literally anything what blows my mind we have a lot of startup failures and everything watching like if i was into like design and ux i would just upload my product design language any competitor's design language all of those things that you could literally have a workflow where you could put like a feature idea in and see it in every possible design style and user experience exceptionally quickly fire frame out in minutes very quick it's insane and like you know with tools like nano now nano banana it's like a it's like i don't know it fifteen second gen time like it takes nothing so crazy it's super quick but like it stuff blows my mind because it's also endless like this is where i have this is where i have to focus myself because i could just keep going here i like why not i have seventy five other replication of this and you know do one click eight hundred images you know it's like alright it's like really yourself in rory because this is sort of where you know it gets refined right if i look into something more like on the product image shot side of things where i'm using a product to get to an end result here the these are ad creative if it looks like right yeah this is like a big use case i think for most companies regardless of what your company is exactly so again you'll notice a lot of the same sort of theory here the batch processing engine we're not doing that much different you know we're basically attaching an image which is you input and image we're attaching a user prompt which is just saying kind of what you want we have custom instructions here which is basically like how your system prompt for any of your prompt generators on your custom gp but really the idea here is to focus on like i want to be able to produce again ten prompts yes and i wanted them to be very specifically formatted and i want them to go and just go directly to you know the image generators without stopping so this gonna all be one click and then the other piece here that we've started to add a lot more which is the visual brand profile right so taking about twenty images and dumping them into chat gp or you know any of the your ll of choice and asking to extract like a visual prem profile so we have like like a style guide for each image generator right so we're using the custom instructions which are the basic rules saying like this is how you create this is out a format this is how output of our visual brand profile which is saying this is how it should all look you're combining that as a system prompts this sounds so much more confusing than it is i promise to anyone who's listening that meets with your prompt and a picture of your image then it goes and splits and then we can run these to any sort of different variation of this there's you know i've run millions of them here so it's like anything here can work and we're doing it again we've done it one for ten we just split it and do ten more the thing is this can be forty a hundred scale you know a thousand because when i open here it's like you see like everything that's getting great in this this stuff takes me like twenty minutes honest ran a lot of you literally making thousands of ads in twenty minutes yeah right and it's c but it's c versus creating at this point the curation portion is going into the system prompt and the the actual building of the tool and then like that's the creative piece to me at this point this is now how do i run this at scale and just like get to a place where i'm looking through all of this and being like oh i like this one or i like this one or i like this one have you built an agent yet that ranks and like basically gives you the best rep that's the next piece we keep creating newer problems right it's like it's exactly that's why i was asking scale you know we need a visual analyzer we're less than an hour in and you've showed us use case that basically has built a entire you know photography business and a whole creative design business through like a single tool and a bunch of prompts just so people understand what's happening here like this is a creative design agency yeah you would have to pay a freaking fortune to get a creative design agency to come back with this amount of usually you get like you pay in the thighs and thighs and do you get like three choices yeah you wanna pick a b or and you're like and the outputs i you're like hey do you wanna pick any of these thousand images yeah it's just creating custom libraries right like and this is sort of like even the the crazy thing about these tools right this is some of this stuff blows my mind where even as the user prompt i'm saying dumb things like this is where i like to have fun where i'm saying dumb things like give me a give me a low f meme and like it's coming up with something like this like all held a candy like this is so stupid but awesome at the same time so good that ad will work that this was genius this was low i mean that it's like busy office at i didn't do anything here like that and i hate to say that but it's just i put so much work into that system prompt that now when i use a user prompt it's just like whoa okay because there's some smart stuff like these memes that i was asking it to make like this is smart just asking it by saying to make me low meme you know athletic creams this is my personality now no prompting of that just came up with it you know self care mode with a bottle you putting so it's so absurd that's so good right like it's really good i wanna get in here and build paid advertising injury for direct response because these are all like really great brand ads for b but in b b like what's really weird but b b is the worst quality the image the better it performs i would looking to just like take some of the would you like to see this and so this is oh here we go this is a b advertising my campaigns are so good your spam folder once in a autograph right like these are these are we we prompted in here like give me like a used car salesman vibe this is my old business partner phil still you know play around a together with this stuff so it's you know how do we take we out a winning ad for you know b to b and the email marketing services that was basically we called in the king of cla we put them on the game of thrones throne right and like that was it and that sold us clients for months it was insane actually how many people responded to that so we're like let's just replicate and do the the dumbest stuff we could possibly imagine and see what works again so this stuff is pretty funny in regards to you know respect the ct king like these are just taking the one image of him and running it through saying give me an me so you know to to the b side you can also do really weird stuff that sometimes catches the eye i love it by the way kip and i are like what's up frantically but to tell all the wanna do with this part of the big takeaway is you know and companies you have the creative teams who own all the kinda of creative asset generation but this to me me means that the teams who are relying on the imagery should be self sufficient hundred percent right like the there's no reason that you kinda have to have different teams who are skilled you should have people who can just use these tools wherever they use images they should just have a seat a license and figure out how to use these tools and i really thought about that before and until i've seen how much you are able to do now you have to master foundational elements but how much you're able to do when you actually really understand how to do prompt in and workflows it's pretty pretty mind blowing which we should do a follow up episode to this care and i don't i don't know if it's a priority of it too but it's like oh in twenty twenty four the average paid marketer or paid marketing team spent their time this way and now they need to spend their time in this very different way like how you spend time on asset creation segmentation data reporting has changed dramatically huge and the number of campaigns essentially we're saying is like at least ten x oh easy right i mean it can be a senior infinite i guess that's a question for you roy before we go it's like you're working with this technology you're scaling of a bunch of creative like what has been the delta in terms of like number of campaign and amount of creative before doing this to like now how big is that if we just created more work for ourselves to be honest like it's for asking it's like i think there was this crazy promise of ai as if it's gonna get rid of a lot of the work it's like no we're still gonna fill the time it's gonna do more with the time right so from a from a standpoint of being able to test it's been a lot more effective because if you just look at like the way the game has played a little bit more now it's always it always evolves in changes right like what works right now in the performance space will work in you know a year but it's like if we have more that we can test that means we can optimize better which means we can find winners better which means we can iterate integrate better right like it all sort of feeds itself it's just having optional and having freedom whereas if to make that library that i just showed you on fig i would've taken graphic design that would've taken me a year maybe to create all those i'm not even kidding and it's twenty minutes now so and i don't always wanna be like it's the time it's the time it's the time it's like deep the fact that it's also a little bit intuitive when you put some intuitive back end into it that you know again not everyone can just go and build that thing in five minutes that took me three weeks to build that tool but that tool you know after three weeks it's just a basically did i get the system prompt right and like once the system prompt is right it's like you strike gold and then it's like you just hit go and it works yeah it's creative design team yeah took you three weeks to build a creative design team yeah and i take that footprint anybody in the world would take that three weeks of trial and error and working backwards that's one thing i can you know definitely in impart onto people here if they're interested in building workflows like this the idea doesn't like start unless you go from the end so you have to be able to get good output first get to be able to get this is how the output should look that's a great yeah this is the prompt i used how do i get that prompt to scale fifty times mh right what do we need to write a system prompt to get that prompt fifty times what do i need to input so it's like total reverse of how you probably think about it that's a great day so start with the outcome and then reverse engineer into scale mh it's the only way to do it yeah as a pro tip and so you're using we and then you're basically exporting these images and then running ad tests and doing everything in meta or any of the core platforms right just so that everybody understands kinda of the indian flow as we close out here is what i'm make sure yeah so i personally i'm not running any as i'm teaching businesses how create this stuff so they can do whatever the hell they want with it right that's that's my it's like take it here's even like you know here's like the stock car that i just gave you go build upon it too like change it up yeah make get different builds you know but the performance tune on it if you want to so it's it's basically like here's the here's like get off the start line and move but yes that is the idea is to just sort of eliminate a lot of that work and i hate say eliminate because i still think the photography is the most important thing to i wouldn't say go get rid of your photographers and your creative team i would say this is a supplement yeah this is a way to test direction and then get things done professionally if you you know if you could have the means to you keep building out or to be like this is our entire look and feel now like you can reshape a brand yeah by testing and you know tell like audience response so is just so many different ways to go about and use it just i i try not to tell people to be like thinking about it i need to get rid of people because i have this it's like yeah yeah you know no it's all about that yeah well it's kinda like code right the vibe code means it's easier to create more code never but it just means there's an unlimited want for more code and so it just allows people to create more software i'm sure there's an unlimited want in the world for great creative assets but historically the only people who could get them as people who could afford to do that through creative design agencies or photographers and now like it kinda democrat the ability for everyone to get that so the people who might use it may never have used if photographer or a creative design studio anyway because they couldn't afford it sure i think that's what's happening is like there's pent up demand for this stuff and now everyone can kind of get access to it and it's kind of we can end where we started which is create right i think this is a an incredible time to be a crafts person absolutely it's just like do it you'll figure something out that you like or some useful way to use it go build there's a bunch of tools rory you've taught us that an image can be a core building block for lots of things text video different types of imagery ads and that's like a core takeaway here but you have to have proficiency in reverse engineering things and have a tool or a set of tools that you can then play around with and build and test assets on and you've walked us through and given us some baseline workflows and examples and i think you're gonna share those so everybody can go and get started right away which is awesome hundred percent roy this has been awesome thank you so much for being on the show today we'll talk to you all real soon awesome thanks guys

okay so two is out everybody is talking about what a cool video app this is kip and i wanna tell you why sorta two and open ai have just killed social networks tiktok instagram meta they're all gone and it's not for the reason you think we're gonna bring you through the best features why this app is on fire and tell you why this app could be the end of social networks as we know it all of that more on this episode of marketing against the grain we're here today we're talking you about sword two and sword two is the next generation of open eyes video model but kieran they did something very different they made it a standalone application and not only is it just like an interesting better updated video model we'll talk about that but they've also are turning into a social network right right we're gonna show some of the videos i think by now you've maybe seen some of the videos if you haven't we're gonna show you some of the funny videos that you can do with that very similar to v o three eight seconds but i wanna call out some of the real interest in things that they have done here and so sort to the app is basically a quote unquote tiktok clone yeah an ai tiktok clone but there's some interesting in things they have done to figure out problems that other apps like v three have had and so when you log on to sorta two one of the things you'll do is you know when you got a new apple phone you're doing the whole thing yeah it clones you so you create an ai model of yourself now the other smart thing they have done and i'm gonna go into why that's so smart just as part of the onboard and process the other smart thing they have done is they get you to say three words and so they clone your voice so prior to needing to do this you would have had to go and do this with different tools right you would have had to go clone yourself with h agent and then go use eleven laps you come into sword two you create an ai model of yourself then you can create an ai voice clone your own voice and then you can say now i'm gonna create content with myself or based upon permissions you set any other person who's part of the network vine include you in one of my videos you get automatically tagged such a cool mechanics when that video goes live right it's a clever very clever marketing it's engineer led marketing because they have figured out viral vitality like this whole network they've created like a community around the process of create an ai which v three never had right and the other thing that they've managed to do is they've solve character consistency because what have i said about v three it's eight second clips and it's really hard to maintain character consistency across those eight seconds but now this network has a bunch of ai clones and so the character consistency is always the same because you're tagging and using those clones so some alt today is probably the most mean human there has ever been ever ever maybe that's what he wanted i thought this tweet from friend of the todd we need to get a new back on here a new at la i like how you signed it up ripped to owning your likeness so one of the things that's interesting about this is that when facebook started what they actually did was they got your social graph and they mapped your social graph and then they were able to sell ads on top of your social graph this is like the next derivative of that karen where right now it says you own your likeness but they also in the terms of service have the ability to update their terms of service so like how much of your likeness do you actually own and this is gonna freak a bunch of people out right well neither of us yet have access to sword two but i have done a lot of dig in i do think you own your likeness because i think you have to set permissions to allow people to use that within the app so i can basically say you use content i'm allowed to use my ai model or i suspect i can actually set permissions to allow other people to use the model and so what is this set up for well how easy is it now to add payments yes which they announced a stripe partnership to do that right they're gonna do a ton of payments for likeness and all that kind of stuff right right so now i'm in the app and i can say i'm gonna pay kip money to use his likeness miss in my video and then what else have they just hired they've hired someone to build a paid ad platform so now i have payments to use creators in my video their ai models and now i have someone working on my pay platform and so it does make a ton of sense i would actually say that this tweet maybe is wrong in that you will own your likeness and you could probably monetize it within the app well i think the question is is how much do you actually own and what how much do they own and i think she's kinda pushing on it's new but i think you would a a new agree on a few things that like the viral growth loop around this app is very very good the onboarding is good the cameo feature does make it very accessible highly mimic and like creates a new class of creators i think is generally right i also just as a complete eye here i think that it's hilarious that the world thinks open ai cares about b2b b use cases when they're out like trying to take meta yeah you know it's like there's a whole sub thread about oh open the is doing sales prospecting and stuff it's like they don't give a shit about that now they're they're doing this come on i think open ai probably have a wall and it's like if you are not a hundred billion dollar idea you don't even make the starting in point of like a product that's worth doing yeah the all the b2b b stuff it's just the aws they're just like cool we're gonna be aws for that and then all the consumer stuff they're like great we're gonna take down meta and tiktok and everybody else the big viral vitality loop here the thing they've done different is the cameo feature which is when you've cloned yourself and you've set permissions in a certain way you can use that likeness in any video so obviously sam has created a version of himself and has allowed anyone to use that likeness within any video so this was the number one trend in video yeah five billion views on this video on x right which was him stealing gpus and target or one of those it does make you think like how do you even become a creator in this era you only really are valuable if people already know your likeness mh definitely an incredible tool to create a ton of ai swap and who doesn't love the ai swap ai swap is a term people have kind of been calling it which is just sugar for your brain look video has the highest roi of any marketing channel we all know this but most marketers don't use it because it's expensive and slow now with google v three you can create professional marketing videos in minutes no crew no budget just a prompt we put together a guide that shows you exactly how to do it the prompt and structure wheel examples and actual outputs it's got everything you need to start creating videos with ai get it right now click the link in the description now let's get back to the show so the kinda like recap where we are i think the onboarding process really cool creating the ai model very cool creating a clone of your voice very cool the cameo feature really is the standard up feature for me that you can easily use your own likeness and get consistency across every video or i can use someone else's likeness and i can get consistency across every video i think again it's super smart for sam to launch and allow anyone to create a video with his likeness so one of the things i'm did wanna show here is i did find a good side by side of sore one versus soar because we haven't actually talk that much about like cool like is the video actually better or is it just a social app yeah they did make a meaningfully better video product right it's so much better and like like a pretty good side by side and so they did make a cr better video model yeah and i suspect as marketers as business owners founders but using this video model via api and other things but the sorta app itself is clearly a consumer play yeah i think because of the consistency like if i show you a little clip from their launch video because of the ability to do the consistency across clips so if you look at their launch video because it works on the ai model where you've cloned yourself look how detailed this is right it's really good look at the lighten on the hair look at every aspect of the face this to me is the big unlock is that you're able to scan yourself and so the consistency across clips you could still tell with like the lip syncing in the mouth and stuff that it's ai and it's yeah like we're not here hype this up it is definitely a meaningful step for this is still good fix are way better in the character consistency way better yeah again it keeps that consistency people were saying it's really easy to tell it's not sam because it has so much more energy sand trying take over the world for free brutal while it's great for a ceo like sam because he can be in all these ads and he doesn't have to be in the ad he is them now the most meme person ever right that's the thing i would like really keeping in your brain as like you can not create any of these videos you could clone your entire exact team and have them in all of your ads and never have to actually ask them to be in any of the ads i think that's huge i agree i do want to talk about the application the use case what do people need to care about and how should they think about sorta two now that we've kinda of broken down everything that's happening i thought greg guys berg had a bunch of takes on x greg's coming on the show soon i think his first take i actually agree with someone will buy a synthetic sword two style account for ten million dollars or more somebody's going to create a really popular account because they're gonna be really creative at coming up with memes and cultural influences what's i think on the sword two platform but it will to those other players i want platform like tiktok or something they'll have to buy this order to count mh but it will be because it's popular across all the video sharing accounts this my is what i believe the reason for that and like the big shift that i think is really hard for most people to get their head around kieran is that right now a meme is like taking this thing that happened in culture and packaging it in multitude of funny ways right somebody is going to create right like manufacture the thing that happened in culture wouldn't even happen they're gonna manufacture such up to absurd things but they're still rooted in realism that it's going to really touch people sense of humor right and like creativity and it's gonna be kind of a new form of art and created them i really do believe that right yeah i think like proactive memes where the entire thing came from the meme itself it is a hundred percent in form of creation i like that he's like there's an opportunity to created non ai instagram you and i were what's happening about this the social web looks very different when it's just like ai slope everywhere right i i want your take on this i don't think i'd a good thing yeah i don't think it's a good i just don't think it's a good thing if you give people something they're going to do it on mass and only a small percentage of those people are good at it and so for the most part it's going to be awful i wouldn't be surprised to see elon dan weight yeah a ton of that ai video within x i've always thought that ai is going to push people towards more human to human experiences i agree with it and so i could see a social network where you have to which i think is very controversial at the moon actually but you have to validate yourself yes and you have to verify that you're real and that be in a a pretty popular place to hang out because i find the ai stuff cool i love creating it do i think that there is any value in me sitting there for hours consuming at no it rot your brain i think in some ways we're going to push to the far end of what's been happening on the internet over the last twenty years yeah which worries you know right and like with the marginal cost of making anything comes to zero a song a video a painting whatever then what is a value exactly you know there's always two ends of the spectrum right like if the cost to create something marginal cost is zero yeah and the skill and expertise kinda gets washed out then what's the other side of that and reason we're talking about this on the show because we talk about marketing stuff show is the other side of this is where marketing is gonna shine mh right companies that can deliver you know in the early days it'll be like the cool brands that are early on sorta and do some clever stuff but you know greg's here being like feeds are gonna be unrecognizable in three months i don't know if it's three months but it's probably three to twelve months so as a company as a business how are you gonna stand out and some people are gonna build armies of these ai creators and some people are going to try to bring humans back together and both will probably wind in their own way well i don't know what the incentive is for social platforms to allow this to happen on masks yeah the reality is they're trying to drive usage and impressions to allow advertisers to sell ads against and so i don't think there's value in this kind content being the dominant content on like x or linkedin or any of these places because they actually need to drive real human usage and i think this stuff actually probably does not improve usage over the long term it actually makes the defeats much much no so there's like two parts of me i love these tools because it unlocks creativity and i think korean things is the best thing in the world making things matter like be able to craft things create things yeah i think so yeah it's just it makes you happy right do i want to have my entire online experience dominated by ai created s no you know a good example of that is i freaking cannot understand why people have decided that autumn i know i'm like i talked about this on mass online you know we have ai and there's people who think automating in my comments on linkedin is a good thing to do with ai and there are people like that who like i can use this to scale it and really and that's a really good example i like linkedin you don't like it as much but there's actually a good conversation on there but the ai common have already ruined that conversation i it drives me nuts i have some guy who like has set his little agent to like everything i do it's weird it's scary if is like what is wrong with these people i don't know the value like i think that person's in idiot india i can see their comments i'm like wow that person like sucks i would never even interact that person this is a very important point right the best marketers throughout human history have been able to either go counter culture or tap into culture and a lot of ai is enabling bad marketers to just like be culturally irrelevant like to like everything you do is like culturally irrelevant right it's like there's no signal yeah it's lazy mark anybody watching don't do those things also i think i think we're just not ready for the implications i mean i'm we're to the part of the show where i'm just gonna talk about all the weird stuff but it's like what does this mean for death like if i've got like this model of me that you can create a video of me doing or saying whatever like yeah what does that do for yeah it's weird like because of death and how you own how these accounts and your likeness exists after your like it's just humanity is not yet paired from where we are currently heading are and we'll get there and we'll evolve and change but it's gonna be a real mind twister to get there yeah well what is the value like a creator today or like an influencer a creator their value is a value because they probably pick and choose the things that they do what is the value of a creator or when instead of that person being in five videos because that's who is able to pay them that amount of money to be in those videos i can do the long tail and so i can be in five thousand videos but like how quickly do humans get bored of that person because we're in five thousand videos one of the core things about people is we get bored of things very very quickly and i think that that time is shrinking with all of this stuff right and our attention span is like okay well i'm bored of this move on to the next one and i think that's one of the downsides of this is that it's just harder to like stand that for longer right if you start to license out yourself to allow it to be created on mass like i'm already ordered to some out i've seen them in every single video of might ex feet yeah it it used to be fifteen minutes of fame now it's fifteen seconds of fame yeah usually fifty minutes of fame right and you were in like four or five things and now five seconds in fame and you're in a million things right because you can scale that thing instantly and i think that's problematic totally you can get over saturated in a way that's just insane now right exactly there's gonna be a backlash against sam just because he's in this stuff thing about that is i just like he's a serious guy that stuff is on the internet forever i know but i guess like you have to be a user of your own technology i don't know i think the cl in thing and making it so easy to do clone in that scale i think is like huge development here and i don't know the implications but i think it's pretty sizable i think people are going to miss how sizable that cameo tool is yeah i think it is going to disrupt social networks i don't know if it's for the good or for the bad and it's very early to see it's a hundred percent for the bat have you seen anything good about social networks over the past two years we're going down a different path here but like they have not have gotten gradually worse no i i understand well and by the way what's interesting just as an aside is that you have meta open kinda competing on opposite paths is like open eye eyes coming and launching sur two and this week the meta ray band displays come out with meta deeper into hardware kinda competing where open ai and johnny and i wanna go which just just a closing aside you have to schedule a twenty five minute demo at best buy to buy the ray band displays they really wanna sell you in the value of them they wanna improve their retention they really want you to know how to use those things and they really wanna limit the number of pairs out there yeah i think that's a smart thing to do because you want to make it feel like it's special but you also want people to use them correct which is kind of the opposite way of what sort of two going so i'm i'm very interested to see how the next six to twelve months play out and all this yeah look i will be happily online when i get my access creating lots of slap all over the place so it's not as if i'm not gonna use that too we will do a whole sorta two deep dive show and we'll make videos and we'll talk about the marketing use cases the social network potential all of those things but i don't know i think you and i just felt compelled to come in talk a little bit about the launch the improvement of technology but more so like the impact on marketers social media the internet of what we think is going to happen here right right social media marketer should just be a prompt engineer it's quickly moving in that direction yeah alright well this has been a wild show i think both of our brains hurt i think this is probably going to be another chat gp launch kind of moment where people will look back and be like oh remember like when everybody recorded their own video it's gonna be kinda of wild i'm a little bit of a loss for where the world is going from here and i think that's where you and i kinda land but we're gonna keep figuring out and we're gonna evolve right there with you all i hope you enjoy the show today we'll see real soon on marketing its screen

everyone welcome to a special in person marking it's the grain i'm your host kip wagner and i'm here with the one and only meal patel neil you have a special presentation that you're given here at hubspot in bail twenty twenty five where you've done a massive amount of research you got a bunch of data on marketing tactics to help people get better results from the marketing and i wanna kinda do a greatest hits i can't we obviously don't one is the whole talk but the most important ones i was hoping that we would share with the marketing against the great crew yeah so one of the ones that we see is the companies that are leveraging ge or ais or whatever you wanna end up calling we're calling a at hubspot a like ai engine optimization we're answer engine optimization it kinda works for both but ae as well alright so let's call it ae right now so with ae we're seeing it driving a fraction of the traffic so when you look at traditional organic search a lot of the websites that we had in the study that were included they're were getting anywhere from call eleven percent to in the low twenty percent from organic search for b b versus b c yeah for a o for both b b and b c it was less than a percent of traffic of traffic yep okay okay but it was no less than fifty percent of the conversion that they're were getting from organic yes we're were fighting that too i i would share like we did a study on our own traffic and a visit from an ae like chat g complexity versus traditional google search converts it a customer at thirteen x the rate of traditional google church which kind of line with what you're applying right and we're seeing a broad range sometimes it's eight nine x sometimes it's twelve thirteen sometimes it's twenty a lot it depends on how you're optimizing for it you're optimizing for that traffic specifically you're gonna be up at that higher totally rate and what we found is because it's so intent driven just the conversions are extremely high because someone's doing research on the platform and normally when you do a traditional google search you're clicking through a tons of different links you're doing your research and then you're figuring out what you wanna do in the platforms and the l you're doing all your research in platform you're clicking through when you wanna take a action i know that this is i've got the answer for me and i wanna go do something about it yes the way i talk about it is like used to get answers now you take action from answers to action and another interesting thing that we see with companies doing marketing is you know especially here at inbound i've talked a lot of companies today and a lot of them are trying to pull back on their blogging efforts because they're just like oh we don't get as much google traffic it's not worth as investing as much but buy have data that i show with chad per p google a overuse the top source that pretty much all these a are pulling from is blogs so it's like yes you may not get the traffic that you once did but if you're not creating content and getting citations in other blogs you're gonna miss out on a whole traffic from these ai platforms yeah so we're seeing that too where all the things you did for traditional search still matter yes you need to do new things on top of that to get properly cited and recommended by the ll in the new ai search yeah like have a comparison of ae o versus seo in my presentation and it's almost like a circle but it's highlighting the different point so it's not really a circle because not every aspect content creation is a ten for importance level for seo versus ae but like things like links really matter in seo but ae really only cares about citations versus links right seo cares about content and quality and length in some cases i love u yep but ae cares a lot about how the content is structured right so what we like to say is you create content in today's world for humans but you package it for ai yeah we were moving for a we made content just for humans then now we're making it for humans and robots that's right right and you know i have the stat in my presentation video has way more consumption than any other content format which everyone knows because social is where really people consume their content and it's even more when you look at time on platform form versus like a chat gp so people are like oh videos where it's at but with ai yes you should create video for all the social platforms out there and ai some of them have deals with some of these social platforms that are pulling and they're trying to dissect information but we still see them pulling from text more than anything else by far yeah what we have seen is similar text really matters if it's a new topic where the text is more limited they'll often pull in videos like we've even seen that for like the podcast right like if we're talking about a new product or feature that just came out with like one of the l like what kieran did a deep sea cap so there wasn't that much out there so like they're pulling in that video and sometimes a a video is like a value add it's thought that you shouldn't do video but video can't replace text i think is the point that you're making the that's right and mh video is still important because it builds a deeper relationship which is why you guys do videos podcasts and even in person events which are amazing yeah but we looked at long form videos and the average watch type if you add up linkedin facebook instagram tiktok youtube has a higher average watch time for the same piece of content than if you add up all those networks combined by far and it actually beats it by more than double even if you added tomorrow that is actually the least surprising stat we've talked about because like youtube is just playing a different game than everybody else that comes to video but the issue that we're seeing when we talk to companies is they're focusing more on pushing their content on like instagram and facebook and tiktok is like look how many more views we're getting i'm like yes yes guys you look at the watch type and it's also how they count views it's very different from platform to platform youtube has just more engagement and what we've seen work better for a lot of companies is publish on youtube first promote harder because it constantly guys evergreen traffic versus the other platforms then go on the other platforms with the same piece of it i actually agree with you on that and i'd i actually you you might have data on this or not i don't know youtube is also i think the best to then monetize that engagement is by far the ad revenue is way better ad revenue versions yeah like when we put in call to actions within our videos to generate sales and then it's not all perfectly track but then when we ask the customers where you find us for the video content even when we add up the views youtube generates way more revenue even if the view count is a third it'll end up generating what we see is usually five x more than the other pocket because the conversion rate of the views to customers is just so much higher the engagement is there yes the engagement deeper and they're taking that next action on whatever the call action is at a much higher rate that's right yeah and the other thing that we're seeing it doesn't matter if it's ae o or seo or paid ads or social media we're seeing the sales cycle just really drag out and that trend is continuing interesting so i have a chart that breaks down by price point you know like sub hundred dollars hundred to like five hundred five hundred to like a thousand thousand to ten thousand ten thousand above for both b to b and b before you know never everyone wanna talk about the rule of seven engage with the brand seven times online to much more likely to convert we're seeing the average touch point now being somewhere around the eleven that's increasing too why do you think pause me at least some thought there we don't have data on why but our assumption here when we look is there's way more competitors for any type of business there's less mo because of ai and technology and how cheap it is to get things started so just people are these products services aren't very different yes and if you look at business okay people are starting to create copycat cats at cheaper price points and this isn't because i know you being quite frank you guys actually have a lot of copycat cats that are much cheaper in price point we have at our ad agency n mp digital thousand plus people much smarter than you guys were in thirty something countries at this point where we have people twenty something where we have offices majority of our customers will still choose you over the lower cost alternatives right brands support community ecosystem training there's a lot of other value ads that you can necessarily just look at a price point plus you guys have freemium them or slash free and a lot of stuff and you plug into a lot of other tools technology so there's a lot of other value add but what we found is in today's world a lot of people will pick the cheap alternatives and then when they realize they wanna create a real business let's say like a marketing software they realize it doesn't work the way they really need and oh i'm spending more money hiring consultants and all these head counts to help me out then just paying double or triple because yeah something may have been one third the price but you just spent five thousand dollars a month when you could just saved the five thousand dollars a month on consultants look neil just shared some wild data ae o traffic converts it thirteen times the rate of traditional search that's insane that's why our team just dropped the ultimate ai marketing playbook it's got six strategies that actually work from ai search optimization to intent engines it gives you the tools tactics and timelines you need to succeed get it right now scan the qr code or click the link in the description now let's get back to the show the illusion of total cost of ownership in the world is crazy right now because there's so much change in disruption and people just trying to comm down on price but those hidden costs are just everywhere yeah we used to use salesforce globally great tool the amount of money we were spending on consultants were so ridiculous we had to get off we ended up switching and you can guess to who but we ended up using hubspot because the cost of consultants were just extremely high the economics did not work out for us but going back to marketing to it back on track we're finding that the reason people need many more touch points is because of more players everyone's looking very similar because you can build apps so quickly with tools like lovable and stuff like that now and people are very price sensitive in this economy very but one interesting thing that we started seeing with ai in b2b b that's been a really interesting tent for a lot of our saas companies that we work with they're doing really well with ai because ai is dissect full cost and giving people breakdowns when you actually pay for a product what is it really cost which is a huge marketing angle because you can then go and create content on if you choose hubspot here's a real cost versus these x y and z companies and do comparison tables and ai loves comparison data comparison table yes then you use structured data make it easier from it starts spinning you out and then it shows analysis between you and the competition and it's a great way to pick a business and then you do that per category and use ai content to help you with that you can just generate a lot of revenue that's it's a good pro tip for kinda like lower the funnel okay i gotta ask you the question i've been asked the most here at inbound which is what's going on in the future marketing marketing feels like it's so different and it's changing so much like un wrap the crystal ball and tell us like if you're a marketer now what are the couple of things that are going to be happening that you should be focusing on in the future yeah so the big change that we're seeing because if you look at marketing the biggest spend is in advertising paying platforms like facebook and google you can see it on the earnings calls so people used to do full blown creative and marketing campaigns what i mean by that is like those squat potty videos or even lower low five versions of those where you're paying a few thousand dollars to five thousand it's huge hit miss we're now seeing everyone is going away from high quality production ex super bowl commercial and focusing on volume low ph content and just cranking out creative at mass scale but paying quite a few people whether it's on upwork or internal teams to come up with unique scripts and ideas for the content so in essence we're seeing a huge shift in marketing in which people aren't paying for creators anymore they're paying for idea radiation more even though ai can create it we're seeing humans create better ideas than ai but they're using ai to come up with it so you can test and mass quantity the second thing that we're seeing is corporations leveraging free tools they're taking that out of the hubspot playbook da talked about the on stage years ago where it's not freemium you guys go with free and that's really helped hubspot get off the ground but they're starting to do that in all sectors b to b you know b could be mortgage calculators or tools that help you analyze neighborhoods for schools or whatever if it if you're selling a home right b to b free versions of tool that lead into the bigger tool set that you're selling kinda like what you guys do with your grader and what we're finding with the tools is it's a cheaper form to acquire users than paying for ads with tools like lovable and all these a platforms is more easier than ever to crank out but here's a caveat we're seeing huge increases in leads lower conversions because the quality that's coming from the tools isn't as high but we're seeing on average ninety three percent more revenue because the total lead volume even with the decrease in enclosed rate is making up way more revenue in total you would call up the bridge problem how do you build the bridge from the free experience to the paid experience and when you could build that bridge yeah i can economics get really good but for a lot of markets you're pointing out there's just not a lot of great free resources and free tools out there and it's become easier and cheaper to build them and so doing that can get you a lot of volume in this changing world and there's a lot that a marketer can do there obviously and the the last big trend that yeah we're seeing and your audience is probably not gonna light this one oh no is people are actually going back to the old so if we look at the first six twenty twenty five everyone was about ai alright and everyone's like ai is hot i don't know what's gonna happen with all these applications do i even need a crm do even need to do email do i need a website people are really asking us why should we do seo why do we even need a website anymore and if we start looking from july to you know we're now in september we're seeing most of our conversations ai is cool but we need to go back to fundamentals like we see email and i believe the status is eleven x more than social from conversion now i get you're collecting a email lead from a lot of different channels but people don't talk about email anymore they really don't i know you guys do but the general marketing you know community does talk about no seo paid ads it's what's driving revenue ae is amazing companies need to leverage it it's not gonna drive fifty percent of revenue people for a while yeah so i still gotta grow a lot and they're saying google's done google's growing in search volume and we're seeing more usage on google ever than before and they're even reporting numbers of that and their earnings are showing that they're still growing at a healthy pace right and when you look at the overall marketing lens you know instagram is i believe the second most popular search engine they're at six point five billion daily searches we're now starting to see companies optimize be like even though we're b to b and very few people use instagram for b to b i think the number and i have it on my side i believe it's six percent of the usage from our study show that people are actually looking at b b content it's like oh when they perform a search on there even though they're searching for friends most of the time a lot of times are actually searching for content and information we need to be there because this is a huge revenue source it's ugly people don't wanna talk about it and it's on a lot of the channels but it drives a ton of revenue for corporations so your bike what's oldest new focus on email focus on the fragmented search market yes traditional search but youtube search instagram search where people are really spending their time especially if you're in b b and you might have maybe discounted it before yes and because the overall daily search volume is a little bit more than fifty billion depending on the sources you're looking at google at thirteen point six or thirteen point seven billion daily searches is that roughly twenty seven percent market share so there's this whole slew of other search engines like linkedin and youtube and instagram that all get billions of searches per day it's on business there's all stuff out and no one focuses on it where there's very high intent traffic that converts extremely well and companies are just ignoring because they're focusing on this shiny object of ai and not saying ignore the future we all know it's a future but you can't ignore the boring and ugly that is driving a ton of revenue and still growing you gotta have a good foundation while you innovate yes i love that neil thanks for being about thanks for joining us some marketing against again i think you just gave everybody a pro class in what matters today in the world of marketing shared some great data back examples thanks so much for joining us thanks for having thanks for being here everyone

today i'm gonna explain to you one of the most counter things that's happening in the ai world the thing is that businesses now want to do more than ever before with ai but they don't know how to do it and that's getting a massive opportunity for those who do know how to help businesses use ai today we're gonna break down not just this opportunity but how to go tackle it and build your own agency to actually run ai transformation for other companies and make a lot of money in the process alright first i'm going to show you how to set up an ai consulting business from scratch then kieran and i are gonna give you some insights and some real world examples around this opportunity and so when it comes to the world of ai things are changing dramatically and businesses they need a lot of help and if you're watching the show you're an ai early adopter and you are set up for success to help these businesses and what i wanna give you is four basic steps that you can go and do to build a really healthy ai consulting business the first of those steps are to define what you offer and what you sell and in this case it's ai consulting but it might be a more specific version i'm offering you know ai audit services it might be i am doing chat gp training or cloud training whatever it is you need to decide what that is get a clear description of it so that people who know nothing about ai can understand what you're gonna do to help them the second thing and a really important step is to understand who your ideal customer profile is how big is the company what industry are they in who are you targeting so for example you might say hey i'm going to offer these services to manufacturing companies that are between twenty and two hundred employees and my target is the head of marketing at that manufacturing company because i am doing ai consulting ai training for marketing use cases and so that would be you know your very basic ic and then you could use chat gp or what have you to basically build out you know what are their preferences where do they do research how are they basically gonna discover you so that you could market to them that's a whole other show we're gonna assume that you're watching the show you know the basics of marketing and you can get a handful of clients through either direct outreach or some marketing efforts now the big part for step number three i'm gonna give you everything you need to do this we're giving you prompts to run this ai consulting business we've got a great link you can hit the link in the description below we're giving you ten amazing prompts for free that would be the foundation of any business like this so for example regardless of who your ic is one of the things you're probably gonna wanna do is do ai transformation audit and help that company understand how they need to evolve or transform using ai so in this case literally all we're gonna do i've already done a version of prompt number one here where i've added in a fictitious business fresh harvest foods that basically takes that prompt and fill out the information that you would wanna fill up for it to actually fully execute so now that i put that prompt with the business information i'm just gonna put it right here in my chat at gp using basic gp five depending on what you gp you're using you could try different models but we're just gonna use the baseline version of gp five the great thing is super fast and so here's our audit like literally within seconds for fresh harvest food it says executive summary key findings high automation potential customer churn risks customer support bottlenecks forecasting gap quick wins available opportunities such as ai marketing personalization data entry automation and ai powered chat support our low complexity with immediate roi so these are things that if you're you know work with a client that you can give to them and this is they give summary that they can go sell into the rest of their management team that you can then go and help them with and so it's done process mapping across sales and marketing operations customer service what i love about this prompt particularly it gives you a full ai opportunity assessment basically what's the potential what are the tools you could use to do this how hard would it be for you to do this and what it thinks it's gonna save the client as well as the cost benefit math like this table alone for a business somebody would pay thousands of dollars for just this and it is in a quick prompt but this table leads you to like an ongoing ai service business that could easily be a hundred thousand dollars a year contract for a potential service offering for one of these companies then we've got a prioritization metrics we got you some quick wins of different things that you can do using hubspot use quickbooks etcetera then we've even got a ninety day implementation map so you can go to the client say hey do you wanna do these things oh great you do well here's how i would get started in the first ninety days i think the ninety day road maps a little thin so i'd probably go back and ask for some more details but now what's pretty amazing is that it says it's gonna save this company one point eight to two million dollars so what would they pay you to save that money i mean something like a hundred two hundred thousand dollars seems like a great deal especially considering that you're gonna break even within four to six months and what i love about gp five it's always also looking for the next best step to kinda help you keep going and get the answers you're looking for and so would you want me to build a detailed financial model with cost savings and breakeven even by quarter so you can just say yes and it will then go and take the next action prompting so you can kind of spend some time with gp five and get a really really robust report that's pretty awesome okay so it has built me an interactive model here so i could go in and actually just like i wouldn't excel change any of these values this is like feature it's first time i've seen this in chat gp the fact that you can expand the table i could download the table as a csv so all of this downloads in a csv that i can do in excel which is pretty freaking awesome and now i can say can you take this report and audit and give me a version in your canvas feature that is easy to edit and download so now here's the kicker canvas in chat gp is like a word processor like google docs but with ai so i can now go in here so i can go to edit mode and i can edit anything i want if i wanna change some numbers add my own thoughts my own points all that i can do that's sweet then i can close canvas and then once i'm done i can download it as a pdf or a document so if you want a pdf to send to a client you wanna put it in google docs so you can collaborate with a client it's super easy you don't even have to copy and paste it is remarkable how fast you can put together an awesome output and this is just one of the ten prompts you can easily build a really good business with these prompts and with this focus so i said we were gonna get to customer acquisition and to marketing when you're running a business like this you need to have a way to acquire customers we've got that awesome marketing playbook for you over on hubspot dot com if you go to loop marketing dot com it's free no form fills you can just go through and read everything you'd ever wanna know about doing marketing well in the ai era but it's got some great things like how do you partner with influencers how do you run personalized email campaigns how you use ai to create marketing materials really quickly and easily how do you start showing up in search results in chat gp and claude those are the types of things that if you're starting a business like this that you're gonna need to do to get found and get customers and so i highly recommend checking out loop marketing dot com and go into more detail but if you could just pick one basic channel maybe it's linkedin marketing maybe it's youtube videos maybe it's partnering with influencers you are going to be able to get the first handful of clients that you need to kinda test this out so that's it four easy steps to find what the service offering is choose your ideal customer profile use the ten free prompts that we're giving you i walked you through an amazing example and then go check out loop marketing dot com for everything you need to know about customer acquisition look the important thing for you to understand is that every business out there is scrambling for ai help right now they're trying to find consultants and services to guide them through this crazy transformation that's happening but there's still not enough of them yet i'm talking about a one hundred billion dollar market with basically pretty little competition so we built the one person agency stack this includes the ten prompts i show you to let you run enterprise level audits design custom workflows build training programs that actually work you can capitalize on this massive opportunity for yourself so you can get it right now you can scan the qr code you can click the link down in the description below i highly recommend the prompts they're awesome so somebody who's already taking this like ai transformation business and running with it is alex lieberman he had a great post on this and karen and i gotta break it down because it's gonna help you and how you think about building your own ai consulting business friend of the pod alex lieberman he had a post on x that i thought was really interesting this might go down as one of the most important but somewhat ironic tweets of this ai transformation era and he's basically like i can't hire fast enough for my ai transformation company is this company called ten labs that helps people adopt and transform ai and he's like basically begging people to apply and what ke this tells me is we need more humans than ever in this ai era and we need more humans to help other humans i've spent a bunch of time talking with folks about ai and they really want some real human hand holding are you seeing this is this something that is just seems like to me a massive opportunity one if you're a consultant to provide these services and two if you're a business and you're not moving as fast at ais as you want you probably need some of these services this is what the opt would have said right that there's just so much pent up demand for things that ai unlock so yes ai can help people ship much more code it can do works of engineers but there's an unlimited want for software there's an unlimited want for internal custom apps there's an unlimited want for ai work flows that you can integrate across your business but that is a very new skill set and there's just not enough humans who know how to do it i think the hardest thing isn't just like the building of the ai you really need to be an incredible systems from process thinker to figure out how to like integrate ai across things that are actually useful for your business and so yeah like i think the kinda weird thing is there's a lot of talk about how ai is gonna disrupt the human job market but for ai to be successful you need more humans than ever to do that work and i think that's what alex is fine and as you can't hire fast enough because the demand there's so much pent up demand for internal apps custom software or niche software there's so much software people want to build the reason it's not being built is because engineers are really expensive and really spa and if they become more plentiful it just means more things are gonna get built i would pause it to you that we talk about ae and we talk about the number of searches and questions going up on google that metric is not a metric of interest in stuff it's a leading indicator of like curiosity and abundance and what people want to do so you have to look at that like the google search volume going up which we've talked about a lot and say that also has to apply to all the things people want to do in their business and that means exactly what you're saying everybody is trying with this new technology to do more and more they see new opportunities that they would have never can considered before before ai because ai now makes them possible i could build these custom apps i could build these lightweight things i can build a workflow to actually do this thing that would have been too expensive or too hard before and that is transformative and it's opening up this whole new era of education where people are like great now i know this is possible but how do i go and actually do it right it's the two hard things are the known and what to automate with ai and want to integrate ai into knowing what to actually build and then knowing one how to enable folks who actually use those new things they're really the three core skills i know that's kinda what alex startup up is trying to solve we are so early there i'm not surprised this company is on fire there are such limited amount of folks who know how to do that at scale of four businesses literally well you have told me that there are people who are literally just taking things that we are teaching on marketing against grain on this show and just packaging them up into consulting services to help companies right and making hundreds of thousands of dollars is that right it is a huge opportunity right now if you have curiosity if you're technical if you know how to work with businesses there's just unlimited opportunity and being able to integrate ai across those businesses most businesses do not know where to start they're still like trying to figure out where do i even begin right and if you are a person you can help them go from zero to one in their ai adoption you can kinda print cash i've said before say this era if you were a smart curious person everything is at your disposal to have financial security and what alex is talking about is a prime example of that and the number one thing in having financial security is like being on the right side of the supply demand equation and what we're telling you is that there's a lot of demand for businesses to learn how to do ai and not enough supply to help them exactly i hope you found this really valuable if you did hit like it's subscribe we'll see you real soon on marketing against the great

hey everyone welcome to this episode of marketing against the grain today we are going through major major things that are happening in the market we've got updates from google jim and and agent browsing coming to chrome we're gonna talk to you about whether seo is dead and au is the next big thing we're gonna break down how p r is coming back in a big big way and we're gonna give you a blueprint to why ai transformation is the next big training and services unlock out there all of those right ahead for you on this episode of marketing against the grain alright kip i want to bring you through the latest launch from google because google are fresh out of their antitrust case they're ready to get going now so they come swing in they're ready to take down some companies they kinda replicated perplexed comment which i know you're a huge fan of i'm a big fan of complexity but they have disrupted search even more and they have added some functionality to the browser that i think changes completely how we use the web so you're basically saying once they got out of legal trouble they're taking it to complexity and they're going all in on chrome and trying to bring ai to chrome right chrome is an incredible front door for the average user to start to use ai and so expanded it to start to use gemini and as a no brainer but what i thought was really interesting about this launch it's just how much it changes the way we search but also we've already gone through the death of clicks we've talked about that and we're gonna talk about that in the future shows which is no one clicks anymore because get the answer from ai this is the death of web pages and i wanna give you my quick hot take of why i think this is the death of web pages so they have the ability now too just talk to chrome in the url box and one of the core features is when you are on a web page and you are talking to chrome chrome has that web page preloaded into its context window so when you're a user and you're using chat tb or where i'm using claude or i'm using gemini i uploaded a document and then i start query things around that document now when you're on a webpage page when i'm on a webpage page and i asked like when is jordan bot is coming back from his injury at the weekend because one of my guys he's want my quarterback back out joe not jordan joe burrow is it joe i always get his name joe burrows he's one of my guys jordan love it's jordan love joe burrow you you're combined okay green bay bastards in the i have ing quarterback here it's fine right and so i wanna go find out how he's doing my man had a bit of an injury last week he came off that's you know bad for him turf it's not gonna be good and i go to the web page and i don't need to read it anymore because it preload the web page into the context window i can just ask gemini i can say build me a table of joe burrows injury record and tell me how long it usually takes them to come back from injuries and so in that way i don't need to click on things much anymore but even when i wanna do some research and visit all of these webpage pages i don't need to read them anymore this is amazing so what i'm talking about here is i've gone because i really care about ten team building ideas for any group which obviously you care a lot about obviously yeah anyone knows me i don't care and so i'm like oh i just really wanna consume this page this is one of the few web pages i even visit anymore because i get all of my answers from ai and you see what's happening right i have a little box now up on the top right corner and it is gemini in my browser preloaded with this webpage page and i can just start to talk to it about this webpage page it's opening web pages right yeah this demo that we're looking at opening additional web pages based on what you're answering it but you're not browsing to any of them right it's basically opening them using the data from them to power this one chat you're still in right right remember we used to go like query go to page skim page no that's not that go back query go to page skim page no that's not net go back and all of us seo were like wow look at the amount of traffic go again now i'm like i go to page and i query about that i'm like i got ten follow ups and it's not just the fact that i can do the follow ups in gemini what's actually fascinating is google have this product called ai max and we should do a whole show actually on ai max ai max is a paid product where the ai crafts all of the paid advertising for you we at all you need to do is budget and it's figuring out where you should go based upon intent and ai mode and ai overview are part of that so intent is really important because keywords used to be the thing that would trigger an ad but clicks are going down but questions are going up i ask way more questions now than i used to yeah really more questions and so this is great for google because if i can monetize question volume and intent in this little box i'm making more money yeah the publisher is not getting any organic traffic but this is cool for me right and so what it's doing is it's going to actually tell you the questions you should ask so it's actually gonna prompt for you what's fascinating about this karen is it creates this crazy paradox where if you're a publisher you're gonna get less visits but need to create more pages right niche pages because you need all these niche pages to fuel these conversational interactions because what you're really showing here what's saying is like hey i've got this ai agent and it knows everything about this page i'm on and any other pages i open in my browser in this case this is chrome right and that way i can just deep dive on a topic i can keep open pages i knew i was ahead of time karen in the fact that i always have like a hundred tabs open on my browser tips like i'm new give me headaches this era is made for me baby am going to win this era either that or i'm gonna break the ai because it's not gonna be able to handle my tasks but it's allowing you to go to a deep dive on a topic incredibly fast exactly right exactly all the user really has to do now is understand how to open up things and tabs like when i'm researching i just need to open up all all of the right tabs i immediately actually thought of you when it did the ability to pull everything in and so what we're talking about is it can pull in all of the data across your tabs into a context window so you can open up a hundred pages and jen just use gemini to query those things and so the thing i was thinking about was we're coming up into winter anyone who knows and has fall on the podcast i like sweaters and so i need to start to research a bunch of new sweaters to buy now i can just open up tons and tons of different pages and create like a table and tell up my criteria and have like an actual table across hundreds of tabs built for me sorted than the way i want of all of the kind of sweaters that i need to buy so i think that is an incredible feature for users here i just as a complete side out i have to go off that like this is just a great time to feel life i have essentially a robot that is going to pull together all the relevant information on any topic i care about in the moment i'm here doing the pod and my vacuum robot just came back and dock behind me and it's incredible shout out to the mat team and i'm about to get a cooking robot and like oh this is fantastic never been a better time to be alive you're getting a cooking robot oh pas please can you send me the link i need to see a cook and robot i was gonna slack it to you now it makes everything for you you just put in the stuff in little containers and it's your own private chef in robot form oh my god shout out team porsche i'm emailing with the founder we gotta figure out how to get involved with them okay so let me ring you through some the other things i think you're gonna love and then that's get into how i'm going to transform my cooking ability yeah we can talk robots and everything else this one is really cool find web pages you previously visited so what i do is i go around the web and i bookmark bookmark bookmark bookmark see i've never ever revisited a bookmark ever and so what this allows you to do is gemini has memory so we can recall any pages you've actually been on and you can easily bring them up so again an incredible productivity save so you can see it here i'd able to pull up any kind of pages you've talked to it before and then they are really starting to bring the different systems together so they are actually pulling together the ability to do things across youtube maps calendar so the example they give here is you can schedule meetings you can see the location details this is really cool if you're looking for a specific spot on a youtube video you can ask gemini cool so i'm i'm watching video i'm watching marketing against the grain i wanna know when we start talking about nfl or robotic cooking these kind of important subjects i can query that in my little browser so good with gemini and and go to the exact point on the youtube video and i'll leave with this to see what you think so here you can see it here it's searching right in the bar yeah so instead putting keywords in the browser bar or a web address you're just typing out whatever you want yeah and it's giving you the full deep dive right there and this is a big one right it it allows you to ask more complex questions people don't search in keyboards anymore so you can see here that you're able to just continue to search in ai mode and one of the things it just continues to do is make it very different it drastically changes the way we interact with content right like the way i would interact with the youtube video might only watch two minutes of that youtube video right because now i can go to the exact snippets i want and consume that snippet without having to consume the full thing so it does really change how we actually consume content alright so google is basically out to kill per complexity it's going to really disrupt comment so here is incredible in the coming months they are going to be introduced in agent capabilities to gemini and chrome which allows you to do tedious tasks it is going to help buy things from insta cart for you it can help you book flights and so we can start doing tedious tasks right there in the browser very very cool look seo has completely flipped on its head ai engine optimization ae is what's actually working right now we just put together our early science guy to ai engine optimization and honestly this is the playbook we're using internally we're sharing the exact frameworks like how to write content so ai actually quote you plus our ae o greater tool to measure what's working get it right now scan the qr code to click the link in the description below now let's get back to the show so this all just got announced we're we'll drop the link in but it's still rolling out we'll do a bigger longer show and some tutorials on this once we both have access to everything here in the coming weeks but it's pretty wild and i think one of the reasons we wanna show you we wanted to give you a quick glimpse into the future but also seo is changing and dying my friends if you're watching the show as a marketer as a business owner if you're looking at visits to your website everything here and just walk you through should tell you that the visits of the website is gonna go down but the quality of the visit you to get is gonna go up so obviously what everything we saw from google one of the biggest stories of the week it's gonna change the seo game and kieran i saw on linkedin you were maybe getting into the equivalent of a linkedin fight with someone mh on if seo is dying and so coming off the heels all this gemini and information and the agent browsing what the hell has happen with seo maybe catch us this up on your seo debate that you were having yeah so you know there are some good conversations on linkedin are there i thought it was just people looking for jobs and trolling each other and no showing videos of their day there's real conversation there isn't like where stuff goes on as well of all the apps i scroll linkedin is my least favorite you're not alone and that actually a update a lot of people feel that way about linkedin okay so there's a really good threat here from matthew proctor and but he basically said was ai o we call it ae we called it aa yeah yeah engine optimization is a scam and he made some pretty good points right he said chat isn't stealing traffic from google he is correct i think this gets lost this isn't why you and i think search is disrupted yeah its search volume is going to go up you said that yourself it does never have i asked so many questions because i'm able to get such better answers and it's easier to do but what's disappearing is clicks and that's the thing that we should focus on he said most ai engine optimization tactics aren't new rank trackers or bs and on and on and on and so what i told him was couple of things on the metrics he's somewhat right about that and so the challenge with the metrics is if you search and chat chi to your desktop let's say in a brand new account if you search and chat to between in your desktop it still isn't gonna be exactly like the results the api will give you right so these trackers are querying through the api and so that's like one small change now when you add in memory and i've done this right i've done searches with my chat memory chat t without memory and then i've searched through the api if you want to do that you can go to open ai playground and do prompts and it will prompt through the api and i did the same query for those three things chat memory chat no memory on the desktop open ai playground through the api each time the result was different so there's some truth in that and it's also very hard to replicate how a user asks questions of an ai assistant so the way these ai search tools work is you'll prep program them with multiple ways that you think someone will ask a question about your product or service and then every day it will ask that question of chat and see if you appear in that result then it aggregates them all together and says well you're visible for this many queries so your visibility is like x percent now the challenge with that is the way you probably ask questions of chat the way i ask questions of chat it's gonna be very hard for anyone to predict and so will likely aren't capturing anywhere near the amount of visibility you really have to me that is not a reason to not use those tools because they are at least some barometer of success like i have a hundred queries and i more visible in the queries today than i was six months ago i think that's worth no so that's number one i see what you think about that and i can get into the second one i told him what my first thought is seo kieran might be dead but he is reborn as ae kieran he's you're back baby in fact dust off the gloves you were like back in all these think they know how to do search and i am back and i'm gonna mess them up back in the that was my number one take you were talking i was like i'm not even hearing what he's saying he's just you know he's gotten the gloves up off the wall and he's like he's ready to go he's he's ready out here he's doing queries and open ai playground he's like doing his thing you're in the arena dude i'm trying to build synthetic memory at the moment to see if that is a way that i could replicate like can i replicate kip search by trying to understand has someone like kip would have built up memory within chat the other interesting thing is you and i have personal and work accounts yes so if you search for something in each account i bet you it's different again because your memory is different in each of those accounts because you used them differently pretty fascinating right like it's very very hard the other thing is he's like well ae is because google search volume is growing that's exactly what you would expect to happen if ae was good that's exactly what you expect to happen this is the thing that google bring out as well actually for their core talking point they're like hey this is actually good for everyone because we're seeing search volume go up now i would argue it's really good for google because they're gonna figure out how to monetize questions and intent but what's disappearing as clicks so this is the point the reason aa isn't bull bullshit and the reason that ae should be something that every company is focused on is because google what they're doing right now is talking about all the search visits going up and trying to pretend that they're monetizing with them the same way through adwords and they're not because they're not the same types of queries and there a lot of ai mode queries and everything but in the background they're trying to figure out new ways to monetize and as they do we'll get a new level of leverage with their new ad products that they come out with but all of this to me just is obvious that these ai searches and ae way more important than ever because better time asked questions and because you get more personal answers thanks to memory and that's the point you're making here is that like right unless you're an idiot you think memory is valuable to search experience and if you think memory is valuable to the search experience then ae is a big and important thing yeah and that's why i put at the end which is this is a brand new channel that has eight hundred million weekly active users and people are actively using it to search for products and services this is great for marketers tiers who are losing channels it is probably the best brand visibility channel or one of the best brand visibility channels you have access to so there is real upside and learn the nuance and so one of the things i wanted to like stress for our audience because you say this all the time is is there a lot of difference between seo and ae not drastically different is there small subtle differences that if you really figure out those small subtle differences like the nuance that you will do much much better than people who just think well the seo stuff should work for the ao stuff yes like we know that right there's subtle differences in how you structure the pages one of the subtle differences is you have to create many many more pages to be visible for all of the long tail of questions that people have about your products and services and from uri and i experiences is finding those little nuances mh and perfect in those and that's what i was trying to say here is there are nuances and that's what's gonna dictate who really wins in that space and who does not the ultimate mind bend of this aa seo shift is that you're gonna get less visits but need more pages yeah yeah and that is counter but the core opportunity here lean into au go direct with having more pages which means you're gonna need to make more of your ideas more of your business content public and you're gonna need to parse it in various specific ways to deal with memory and even more nuanced specific type of questions right kieran right the world's getting more nuanced this to me is the best example of the first time we're creating marketing for agents versus humans yes because the human is coming to your website more qualified because they're doing all of their research and chat cb and so you want your website to be pretty dialed in you don't need to give them a ton of information because they're pretty well research you wanna give it all of the clothes and information to make sure they actually convert whereas for the agent you have to have all of these pages on your websites like really question and answer type pages about your products and services but the human will not find those valuable because they are getting that information in chat and so you've got two things here and i where you're i have to create all these pages for the agent but i have to really dial my website in and make it like very conversion optimization orientated because the person's coming and they're way more qualified and that's what's going to happen to mark right there's going to be marketing for the agents yep marketing for the humans and i think this is one of the first good examples of that happen i think that's the perfect closing here which is like au is here and real especially because of memory especially because there's more questions but those questions and the content to fuel them are getting answered by agents and this is the first step of like the true agent next step of the web the next thing we wanna talk about karen is p r as its real true state public relations i think it's back baby and i think it came back this week in a big way from a tweet i saw can i share it with you yes okay i'm gonna be salty because you traded this tweet and i did not i traded before this tweet you nailed that one i really really killed it okay so there's this company kind of a meme stock open door right now but really opened door was founded on like a genius premise which was like hey these real estate agents make a lot of money they don't do as much work as they probably should for the money they're earning and let's dis them and disrupt this whole market and the stocks had a bunch of issues the company had a bunch of challenges but they just hired a new ceo cass cas was the chief operating officer of shopify he left shopify reported left hundreds of millions of dollars on the table three hundred million three hundred million dollars on the table at shop five what team over open door has a comp package where right now he's gonna make pretty much nothing but if the stock goes up a lot he'll make billions of dollars basically so he's trading of the sure thing of three hundred million dollars for the risk of a two to three billion dollars so very interesting bet and i'm sure we'll be talking more about open door in cas in the future but this i thought was an important message here in which is he said this morning we filed an eight k to say that mine open doors ex accounts will be used to talk with our investors we've parted way with our formal external p agencies we want to talk you will hear us not paid professionals who don't share our mission so he's like i'm going straight to the people i am managing the perception of my company directly as the ceo this is what like pt barn who started p r this is what he did this is what the best companies and executives at p r really do and i think we are rotating back from outsourcing in pd to agencies and professionals who don't understand our business to the leaders who have clarity a story and wanna tell that story directly this a big deal this is a direct to consumer content right i think this ties into the trend we've seen which is most channels now skewed towards individuals and personality led content it's not branded content people don't want that they want real content it's social channels it's mediums like this it's newsletters it's podcasts they all favor people who have things to say and it's pretty cool now we're starting to see like founder ceos go direct to consumers across these channels and tell them what they should understand about their business and not kinda shy away and corporate speak like just do real speak that's how people want to be talked to no one wants to be talking to like they are some sort of person you can just corp speak to and it's interesting it's an interesting in time for p to get your take right like p is resurrected in these kind of ways where you have ceos and founders go direct to consumers but we're seeing maybe the profession of p changed drastically but then you look at the topic we talked about just previously aa ai engine optimization and a big part of that is citations and because of the way those platforms work like a chat to a claude to gemini they look at these large trusted sources which you typically have to try to get visibility on through like p r other than reddit which is like community where i think it's makes it a ton of sense i know ramp recently hired reddit a bunch of folks have higher reddit to actually get more visibility in those platforms because they're used so much within the ai engines but like traditional p has traditionally been how you've got on those trusted sources so how do you fit those two things together where you're like hey like this is much better because you can go direct through these channels but then to get that visibility in those trusted sources for ai engine optimization is it still like traditional p is worth doing there so there's a couple things that play here it's really important what i'm about to tell you could completely change your business you have to go direct because it used to be the old way of doing p is you hired somebody with a bunch of relationships for these very specific meats right and if you could get those stories placed in those media outlets hundreds of thousands of millions of people would see your brand and understand your story right now an average episode of this podcast gets the same views as an average article on a mainstream media site those media sites are far less powerful where all the power is here is exactly where you just talked about it's on reddit it's on x it's on tiktok it's on youtube let's do this we'll come back in six months and we'll look at ka direct tweets to the community the investors you know the market right from x and we'll correlate that with mentions of open door on reddit and you'll see that what he's really doing is he's talking to the community that's firing them up they're talking more that's getting them more referral traffic from reddit that's getting them more citations in ae this is just fundamentally how you build an awareness flywheel for your business in today's era do agree so i agree i think that is true and when you look at what these platforms are using and gemini skus is very heavily towards linkedin which i know you're not as much of a fan on so hopefully i'm in the results lot chat skews very heavily towards reddit yep claude isn't meant to be skewed heavily towards reddit because they have a lawsuit against them i think yeah but use gemini you'd use chat me and gemini i have one's linkedin one's reddit so they're like i agree this which is gonna work really well for them because it gives fodder for everyone to kinda talk about but they also use these kind of financial times in there right these traditional like media outlets they're looking for mentions and those media outlets i was thinking through this like it feels me that is just like p r or maybe those outlets let's not go to what's the mainstream media more they pick up tweets or or videos or whatever right yeah those mainstream media they still matter and they so important but instead of being the audience they're one of the audiences right and you can get through them through this direct method and so i think that you're gonna see this dramatically what you're gonna see is the firing of external p agencies who have less valuable relationships in less business context you're gonna see ceos going direct they'll hire some great communication professionals to work with them and package these stories on their own channels in a way doesn't mean that this profession is going away but where the people work is going to change dramatically we're doing this at hubspot we're seeing it at hubspot it's totally working so p is changing but there was internal people are not the typical people you used to have who watered down the message correct who make it feel like corp speak they still try to keep the same tone and stock i think that thing that sticks out to me is that personalities is back well yeah like founder ceos have personalities they used to get water down by corp speak in the world we live in now an ai world where an agent can get you in the answered if what you're saying isn't super interesting nobody's gonna here yeah nobody's we and so they need to hear it from an interesting source that it needs to be packaged in an interesting way right yeah exactly yeah and that's what we're saying if you're a founder you have to get out in front and you have to take an approach like this versus i don't think it matters and i'm outsourced it it's just not gonna work to outsource anymore p r is not dead but there's a different flavor of p that's come to work i love that and i think that's totally true we have one more story that we wanna talk about today and this comes from friend of the pod alex lieberman he had a post on x that i thought was really interesting this might go down as one of the most important but in somewhat ironic tweets of this ai transformation era and he's basically like i can't hire fast enough for my ai transformation is this company called ten labs that helps people adopt and transform ai and he's like basically begging people to apply and what ke this tells me is we need more humans than ever in this ai era and we need more humans to help other humans i've spent a bunch of time talking with folks about ai and they really want some real human hand holding are you seeing this is this something that is just seems like to me a massive opportunity one if you're a consultant to provide these services at two if you're a business and you're not moving as fast at ai as you want you probably need some of these services yeah this is what the the opt would have said right that there's just so much pent up demand for things that ai unlock so yes ai can help people ship much more code it can do works of engineers but there's an unlimited want for software there's an unlimited want for internal custom apps there's an unlimited want for ai workflows that you can integrate across your business but that is a very new skill set and there's just not enough humans who know how to do it i think the hardest thing isn't just like the building of the ai you really need to be an incredible systems from process thinker to figure out how to like integrate ai across things that actually useful for your business and so yeah like i think the kinda weird thing is there's a lot of talk about how ai is gonna disrupt the human job market but for ai to be successful you need more humans than ever to do that work and i think that's what alex is fine and that you can't hire fast enough because the demand there's so much pent up demand for internal apps custom software niche software there's so much software people want to build the reason that's not being billed is because engineers were really expensive and really spa and if they become more plentiful it just means more things are gonna get built i would pause it to you that we talk about ae and we talk about the number of searches and questions going up on google that metric is not a metric of interest in stuff it's a leading indicator of like curiosity and abundance and what people want to do so you have to look at that like the google search volume going up which we've talked about a lot and say that also has to apply to all the things people want to do in their business and that means exactly what you're saying everybody is trying with this new technology to do more and more they see new opportunities that they would have never considered before before ai because ai now makes them possible i could build these custom apps i can build these lightweight things i can build a workflow to actually do this thing that would have been too expensive or too hard before and that is transformative and it's opening up this whole new era of education where people are like great now i know this is possible but how do i go and actually do it right it's the knowing and what to automate with ai and what to integrate ai into knowing one what to actually build and then no one had to enable folks who actually use those new things they're really the three core skills i know that's kinda what alex the startup is trying to solve we are so early there i'm not surprised this company is on fire there are such limited amount of folks who know how to do that at scale of four businesses well you have told me that there are people who are literally just taking things that we are teaching marketing against grain on this show and just packaging them them up into consulting services to help companies and making hundreds of thousands of dollars is that right it is a huge opportunity right now if you have curiosity if you're technical if you know how to work with businesses there's just unlimited opportunity and being able to integrate ai across this businesses most businesses do not know where to start they're still like trying to figure out where do i even begin right and if you are a person you can help them go from zero to one in their ai adoption you can kinda print cash i've said it before and i'll say again this era if you are a smart curious person you should have financial security yes everything is at your disposal to have financial security and what alex is talking about is a prime example of that and the number one thing in having financial security is like being on the right side of the supply demand equation and what we're telling you is that there's a lot of demand for businesses to learn how to do ai and not enough supply to help them right exactly okay this was fun a new show here and where we got to go through a bunch of topics i had a blast i feel like we hadn't gotten to catch up a little bit let's close out in our last minute i gotta show you the cooking i bought real quick there's this thing pas okay and oh got it come on it has a whole set of prep programmed recipes and all you do is you pick a recipe you add the ingredients either the liquid or the hard ingredients in here and then you get a button and that's it that's baby oh my god this is this literally your dream machine baby this is your dream robot please tell me it has a camera and uses ai as like a professional chef to know when stuff is done okay i need to look into why i couldn't get this ship i know it's probably not available here but there's not like a technical setup i need to get or anything like that no it's literally just okay it's still yeah i've been emailing with founders we can get you on email and stuff with them but oh yeah shout out to folks who are who are doing and team porsche because this is just an intervention that just it's so twenty twenty five but also i'm completely here for it i need this this is life changing for me alright thanks everybody for joining us on this new show of marketing against the grain move back with you real

this is grant lee and the story of gamma gamma is an incredible ai presentation tool they have grown to over fifty million dollars in arr in under two years fifth million users and there's only thirty employees now grant just did a tweet that went viral it's gone everywhere because he has broken them their four exact marketing steps to super their growth and reach these phenomenal numbers in record amount of time and kip an eye are about to break down every single step and tell you how you can replicate this for your business all of that and more on this episode of marketing against the green alright kip we're gonna cover one of the best breakdowns on a marketing and playbook that ai startups are using to really super charge their growth and now we've had some of these companies on we had anton anton on from lovable these companies are growing faster than anything we've ever seen before and i think the breakdown we're gonna give you is from one of these companies and it's the best playbook that has kinda of been distilled into real tactics to show you how these ai startups are growing so fast right what everybody's is saying is like these ai startups should just screw because they have these cool ai products that's not the full story they're actually doing new tactics that is unlocking this growth the company that we're talking about karen is called gamma which is ai slide company and the founder of gamma i think you're gonna pull up his tweet right and his tweet went viral if you are nerd like us you care about marketing and ai i think you probably saw it everywhere over the internet is that right yeah because he really did break it down it's obviously they have done this sometimes you see a lot of these tweets and they're not true right there's just people trying to put best in class get engagement or things out there to get engagement but you can see that they've actually dis distilled this playbook really figured it out and help to scale their growth they're at like fifty million dollars in arr annual recurring revenue there over fifty million users and they're thirty employees like it's kind of bananas how large these companies are growing which such a small amount of people and what was really cool is a lot of people think these companies are just growing because their ai right oh wow the magic of ai they're a new tool they can do new things and they don't really need marketing but like this is a good example of a company that have done marketing from day one like marketing is a big component of why they were able to grow so very very fast and if you break down the math real quick just for context to everyone he's basically saying they spent five million dollars to get to fifty million dollars of annual reoccurring revenue in the pre ai era a company would have spent what karen a hundred yeah hundred and fifty two hundred million dollars to get to fifty million in annual reoccurring revenue so the math of the economics are what's breaking out these growth rates into such kind of exponential curves and we wanna break down for you what the heck they're actually doing and what you can go and do so given that kieran the number one thing he put at the top of this list and i don't think it's an accident is influencer marketing and it's something you and i i've been doing for a long time but i'd love for you to break it down i know because you are i think an expert in this topic influencer marketing really is native companies ai startups use form of viral vitality so like pre ai we had this thing called product like growth product like growth allow users to use products prior to them ever having to talk to a human and there these mechanics in that product that allow you to get what we call viral vitality which is people share in the product with other people a good example of this is dropbox dropbox is one of the most famous examples where i store some files i share that link with you you're like wow like i can access these files and there's this app called dropbox i should also get that app that's a form of viral vitality yeah that has kind of been done to death now those mechanics don't work as well and i think what the way these companies are growing and what's fascinating in the gamma there was no mention of like product viral vitality it's really influencer marketing and as you said was number one and the reason influencer marketing and i think is the new form of futility for these companies is a couple of reasons number one a couple years ago like twenty twenty we bought the hustle right you and i were like hey we think creators we think content we think personality led growth is a big thing we see that night today it's happening creators in b2b b have a ton and ton of audience right so a lot of the audience is owned by these individual creators and that's who people wanna get their content from and the second thing is because you pair creators with cool product demos because these product demos look magical gamma and that app that allows you to build slides automatically i will say i'm a big gen park user i actually got back into gamma last month it's so much better than i had even thought oh nice i need to retry it then they've really built an incredible tool i didn't realize that they had come on in such a short amount of time so it's a magical tool i you know i'm building world class look index really easily so the product demo is kinda magical those two things set up a pretty great foundation to start to distribute your product through these creators who have all of that audience one of the things i wanna break down on influencer marketing kieran and i got a couple takes here that nobody ever talks about one take is influencer marketing is about outsourcing product so instead of you being obsessed with product morality for your own product you're saying hey you know who has forgotten more than i'll ever learn about viral vitality freaking meta for example and like the instagram viral loops are crazy and the tiktok viral loops are crazy so i'm gonna go play there and leverage their viral loops instead of trying to build my own right right like that's that's one reason it works because you are getting the scaled viral loops of these amazing growth teams and you're taking advantage of them where they have figured out the dynamics of like oh we're gonna ask somebody to follow you if they share your story in all all these things right the second thing kieran that i think it's very very important is that like the math and discovery realm this changed in the old world of companies it was like oh i've got this ro model and i'm looking for these direct response metrics and we're all kinda competing using the same math and the costs kinda go up and it you need a lot of money now it's like you could be much more creative with your math and what i mean like that you work out these partnerships with these influencers that are more of a bespoke but you can be like hey you know i'm gonna pay to get you more followers you so that you get more followers i get more sign ups you can do very creative things that you could not do with like these very traditional programmatic ad platforms and there's are two aspects of this influencer marketing playbook that i don't think people talk about at all yeah i think these ai startups sell also are lead in to the fact that you know the personality part if you actually look at some of these finder they're not afraid to get into it and mix it on linkedin and goes back and forth zero cares ma'am yeah they don't care they're on x posting some good content as well post with strong points of view to some of the learnings here i think we're really good for yeah go through listeners are how do i do this right how do i do influencer marketing i'm a smaller company is this for me well there's some like good learners here you cannot minimal viable version creator no or influence market i think that's like a really important thing because the problem is that people who have influence cost money and it actually is a channel that you have to optimize right it's not just give the influencers your money you have to really optimize it and perfect it and so you can't really do a minimal viable version where you're like pay for some like third tier fourth tier influencers and do it for a month and see if it works and so one of their learnings was most startups get a a bunch of things wrong they too small budget right so they started with ten to twenty k a month which isn't a lot for a fast growth company and they're probably spending this on influencer versus traditionally paid ads they're overly selective on creators and messaging would get back to one of the learnings which is go broad ten begin with mh and they give up too early this is a a is a pay channel but it works much more like an organic channel because these creators are posted through organic channels so i i think there are three good learnings one of the things he talked about here is to you really wanna go broad right so he has said list credit personas with audiences that care about your product right so you wanna actually find an exhaustive list of people in that space who are gonna be actually passionate about your product because you wanna try a lot of influencers until you find your core what he says is like ninety percent of all of the reach comes from ten percent of the content which means it's gonna be a small subset out of your creators i think this is a very important point here because this a shift in everybody's thinking used to be like cool i'm gonna write blog articles i'm gonna do social media post and it's about like consistently doing that and getting them a little bit better every time that game has changed to where it's like i need big hits right and it's like i'm gonna have big hits or i'm gonna have misses and there's not gonna be a lot in between and these companies that are getting really sharp trajectories are all about maximizing the number of big hits that they can create from like a viral perspective especially on these like short form video platforms right here's the thing traditional marketing is broken the smartest companies have figured out a completely different approach influencer led growth instead of hoping for organic shares they're systematically recruiting hundreds of creators to manufacture word at scale we're talking ten to twenty times better capital efficiency than traditional marketing well we've put together the complete playbook ten prompts that show you exactly how to discover creators at scale build viral loops through influencers and turn top performers into trainers who actually scale your entire program get it right now scan the qr code or click the link in the description below now let's get back to the show and i think the big thing here is to kinda cover off the rest of the influencer marketing and learning so one of the roles i said that's gonna be really important in the future lucy linkedin was creator led manager and so what i mean by that is this team is really your content team so when you think about it that manager is gonna have to figure out the mixer creators mh with the right mix of channels and the right mix of content formats that work for those channels and then condense it all into the small subset of creators platforms and content mix that really works and one of the things i wanna kinda get your take here is one of the interesting things about tiktok and i know this because i know some people who are tiktok influencers and have kinda talk me through how this works is tiktok is kind of unique in terms of how people approach that as an influencer channels so in all these other channels i want access to your audience so you post through your channel and tiktok because the algorithm rewards new channels just as much as it rewards existing channels what people do there is they actually get the influencers to create brand new channels and they create brand new channels create content because then they don't have to adhere to their brand guidelines or whatever they're trying to do in their core channel they can start fresh just for you and your content and they do this at scale right they might take on hundreds of creators mh and they all launch new channels and then they see after thirty days what's working in and whatever channels are really working they hand over the ownership to the brand and we know some companies of doing that thing think roy and chloe is doing something like that but that's pretty fascinating like because today i don't know if this will change but you can really scale tiktok influencer and marketing and much much quicker than you can any other platform the reason for this my take on this is goes back to the hits you and i know to have a big hit what do you need as many attempts as possible right and so what you can do on tiktok that you can't do anywhere else is just have way more attempts if you have a hundred creators and you've got like this kind of paper performance viral bonus structure for them where you pay them a little bit but if the post really takes off then they get a lot then it's like cool how my only barrier to distribution growth is how many creators i have and how good those people are exactly right there's no platform friction not every throw is gonna be a touch touchdown cap because do a very game i love it so just to let our listeners know something amazing has happened i've always watched documentaries in american football but i would never watch four hours of american football i did not know the nfl have created the perfect sport the perfect sport the thirteen minute game and so what i do now is i don't know any other results and i go watch the thirty minute highlights and that has all you need to see because it has all this stuff that actually happens everything else it just commercials and americans being wow by things going on around them at the game not actually watching the game and so now i can watch a thirty minute american football game and it's like the best thing i'm watching right now i just love this sport thirteen minutes all the fun on sunday afternoons and and then sometime we're gonna get you an american and have you have a proper football weekend in the fall i don't think i could do for but look that thirteen minute summary is is a pretty good cheat code and i'm just happy that like you follow american football now and we can use it as references but just trying to find my team every throw is not gonna be a touchdown kieran you're right yeah it's a lot of field golden feel i feel cold like that i can't wait for that little guy i think always a little guy and he has to come on and i was like okay like this is all i get to do and if i get it wrong everyone hates me and that's like your life that's a tough that's basically kinda how it works yeah alright so let's just kind of like end the kind of influencer learnings because there's one other thing here so if you think about it you have the mixture of creators platforms and content formats what gamma did really well is they figured out what really worked and created the playbook and that thing i love then is they created that playbook and have their top creators act as consultants to teach other creators how to promote gamma now that is a amazingly powerful pyramid scheme right like completely is a marketing pyramid of scheme it's awesome and so what you should really learn from this is people just think here's like my money influencer go promote that thing and i'll see what happens whereas as ga said no like this is a core channel and we believe we can be world class in this channel well this is i think a really important part to understand about marketing the more confident you are and something's is gonna work the higher the expenses to do that thing and the arbitrage that they found is hey i've got all these creators not many of them are making much money they'd like to make money a lot of them might not work but i've got so many of them that some of them will work and i'll be successful right so i can get that distribution at much lower cost okay brand performance marketing yeah let's kinda go through the last couple here because i think influencer marketing really is the big one perfect but the second one is like really interesting one because it's probably anti what most founders do which is he believes you should invest in brand before performance marketing right that is not the traditional one of most founders and the reason he believes that is because the better your brand visibility the better your ad performance which is actually correct so maybe give your a take on that we have failed this to be true but for a finder that's really hard to make that decision because you again are doing something that has some amount of time to like get traction to build foundation whereas paid is like pretty immediate i have a really hot take here i would pause it to you that the stuff in this post that he covers is honestly just a litmus test of whether you're a great founder or not then you understand marketing well no not even understand marketing all he is doing is buying low and selling it high we he is telling everybody to do in this post and if you're reading this post he is basically telling you to invest in areas of marketing that are less certain less easy to predict their outcomes and subsequently less expensive than the tried and true highly predictable ways and he's saying hey i as a founder can make these less expensive less predictable things work and become predictable because like i have the skills to like iterate learn and figure that out and that's essentially the litmus test of a great founder right right and it's like you can show me anybody who's doing a playbook like this or something similar and i'd be like okay your company is gonna be successful like you figured out you have the backbone to be a really good founder and i should say so he definitely approaches brand very similar to how you would approach performance marketing lots of test and lots of figuring not the right creative messaging and then build in funnels with align messaging and creative and i think the big thing to say here is this team's background is optimized yes and you can actually see it through the way they approach definitely see it all forms yeah they kinda like iterate and test maybe you will just kind of round the four blasts really quickly because these two are like much more can to building great products so he says get users to test prioritize before you ship which basically is you can never do enough user testing yeah a b c d d f g all of the user testing you could do to figure out like where were the weak points within their product and really started to figure out how to like bring that to life and make sure they kinda of nailed the most important things to users and the last one like makes a ton of sandwiches is i really love this which is like dog food through the hell that you own product which means use your product and keep asking yourself is at a hundred times better than the alternatives and if you're not using your own product than like question mark with any other users find it actually valuable so those two are like how you build good product my hot take on number four here is that it's all about differentiation that you have to abs ob assess about being different and in this ai world you could make a new product that is just so much better in their case than all the other slide builders and have high differentiation for a little while and if you're not highly differentiated the average thing will get comm super quick right you either are far away like ten times different or you're in a mass of hundreds of other companies the same and if you are not achieving the results that you're trying to achieve for your company it's because you have no differentiation differentiation is now at a premium in this post yeah we're in the most competitive era of software and to understand that you have to be much much much better so it just to recap the influencer marketing which really as driving a lot of success to these ai native startups ups and i think it's something that most companies whether you're ai native or not can actually replicate and i think it's a trend that's gonna continue that happen book because search is decline in paid is getting more expensive creators own more of the audience you have to perfect that as a channel performance marketing versus brand pretty counterintuitive intuitive go with brand your performance marketing will be better because of that and then build great product user test dog food and kudos to grant and the gamma team for building a great great product and build a great great market in playbook this is an awesome playbook the core lesson takeaway for me is like figure out your influencer and marketing playbook and understand that you know this goes back to the old book blue ocean strategy you wanna go whether there's not a high competition he's playing in channels where there's less competition to do great marketing than there is in kind of the traditional b to b avenues and that is really what's let them get a lot more successful so go check that out let us know what you think let us know if you're getting these playbook to work in your business leave us a comment hit subscribe and we'll see you real soon on marketing against the green

here's something remarkable in a world where fast sometimes isn't fast enough businesses need tools that truly deliver hubspot has just released hundreds of updates at their spring spotlight that are transforming how companies operate we're talking breeze agents that use ai to do in minutes what used to take days workspaces that bring everything you need into one view and marketing hub features that use ai to find your perfect audience what previously took weeks now happens in seconds this fundamentally changes everything it's not just about moving fast it's about moving fast in the right direction visit it hubspot dot com slash spotlight and transform how your business grows starting today inbound we made it to friday oh my goodness it has been a week hasn't it thank you all for being here on the last day the hotel lob were quiet this morning i think people still rise out there asia thanks for joining me today i host a podcast called mark against the grain my lovely hope off out thanks thanks appreciate it it fans in the audience thank you for listening my normal lovely c host care in flanagan could not make journey to inbound this year so asia has gracefully agreed to step in and we are going to basically give you a deep dive into loop marketing y'all talked about earlier this week but you and i have been doing it we've been running tests we are in the weeds of it deep for the last like year and a half and we're gonna break down and basically shared the behind the scenes of everything we've learned yeah and we're really excited to do because we have a lot to say absolutely we do and so quick little problem setting frames setting for the youtube audience really people who weren't at inbound if you're a marketer things have been pretty broken right asia like yes give us the rundown as to like what are the challenges the average marketers seeing oh okay what are they not seeing is probably the easier question to answer true okay fifty eight point five percent of google searches are now ending without a click which is kind of bonkers because for a long time google has been the most predictable way to drive traffic and therefore demand for your business so that's bad we're seeing double digit traffic declines as ai intercept that traffic i almost shared a picture of my inbox which is just emails from cmos being like what happened what do i do it's like an email every couple of days is basically what i received so you have that and then with that you have rising ad costs you have lower email engagement rates because what's happening as you get less traffic from search people are overs spending on ads where they're sending twice as many emails and that is make basically flooding their audiences and just dropping performance at a pretty exponential rate right every channels getting saturated they're getting more competitive things are not feeling good no no so let's go to the world where things are looking a lot better because i will tell you that you and i i think we're in the pit of to bear maybe what like a year year fifteen months ago yeah like is a dark dark place it was a we were on a lot of zoom calls where people are just kinda silent shaking their heads you never wanna see your cmo just shaking it said don't tell you one of these a lot you know yeah and so yeah but now we're smiling but we're come out the other side what have we learned and how we come out the other side is what we want to share with you all today because i think we've never been able to do better marketing at hubspot than we're doing right now oh certainly not we're learning more quickly than we ever have we're doing more interesting things than we ever have and what are we calling this new way of working we're calling this new way of working in the play loop marketing so if you miss the keynote or if you're on youtube and you haven't seen any content on loop marketing yet we're calling it loop marketing because well it's a loop yeah two because it kinda of builds on what hubspot started with inbound marketing but marketing was very linear first of all second of all like the average business a decade ago when inbound marketing was in its prime had way more simplistic business models they had less revenue streams they used way less technology even the average like twenty person business i talked to is exceptionally savvy and complex and they need a framework for doing marketing that matches that complexity of their business and the changing landscape of the world of ai the complexity of the consumer journey yeah i mean people used to just move in straight lines and now we see they're doing all sorts of things they're going in places and ways that we didn't necessarily expect or planned for it and so we need a framework that is dynamic that is adaptive and that is a loop and not a line i call it ai ad hey i got you like i have where it's like oh i've got this thing in i'm asking chad at gp if i use for complexity comment if you were at the keynote this morning and i've got like my assistant open in five different tabs yeah and i'm like literally all over the place and eventually i come back to like some common thread and we need marketing that's gonna work for that so we wanna break down what loop marketing is we want to walk through the stages but instead of just walking through the stages we wanna spend a few minutes on each and get deep into like the tactics and the tips that you should go and do and use now to start transforming how you're thinking about marketing yeah okay so asia why don't you break down give us the rundown of the loop you know you and i have debated all of this names is is this really right we had a plethora of discussions i think we landed in a great place why don't you kind of walk us through this the loop overall and then we'll break down kind of the tactics from there that sounds great alright so we've got four phases with the loop hopefully everyone is familiar with these four phases by now express taylor amplify and involved the first phase is actually my favorite and kip weird were time about this earlier and you were kind of shocked i think you would have said i was an amplify gal i yeah i'm an amplify guy so i already i'll take us a lot about you what stage of the loop you're you're like most you're new into and if yeah it's like the new disorder i asked for harry harry potter but you're an express gal i'm an express gal it's all why i'm going to so okay express is all about bringing your brand voice your brand identity your brand style to life and this is a very human face and i think that's why i really appreciate it you actually don't know this about me kip you know that i'm involved but you don't know that when i i'm not working on hubspot i'm am a creator and i run a very successful subs stack when i use a lot of ai but the core content creation that i do it's all me before i ever bring ai into the picture then i'm figuring out okay what do i wanna say and how can i say it in a way that no one else but asia frost can and to me that's what expresses is all about and then i'm using ai and i'm using all my data is that well how is this gonna resonate what's gonna get the best you know open rate based on my previous subject lines i think what's really important that i want everybody to understand is and i think it goes back to the first time i met you the first time i met you you were about to finish college yeah you were writing and you were hustling and writing and you took the day one of the best writers i know and so if anyone was going to be threatened by ai and do i need to write anymore and all of the fear that's out there it'd be somebody like you sure right like you like this is like core main to who you are as a person and instead you're saying no it's actually the part and the most excited about yes which to me is like way different than most people expected us to land here right yeah i think other people are starting to catch on too i'm talking to other writers were really excited about the opportunity to dis instill what makes their voice really special and i think that this is even more german for brands yeah but still what makes your brand special cod that and then bring an ai to help scale and amplify that so what i love about the express stage just it's just what you said that ai can build upon your own creativity your own point of view your own voice yep the other thing is i'm a instant gratification isn't soon enough kind of person you know he's i know i mean who among us doesn't love instant gratification as most marketers are you know we like the dopamine of checking the ad click the rates and the email performance and and all of that and one of the things i've always not loved about marketing is like the market research feedback side of it yeah it took a long time and it was really expensive yeah and i think the thing i like most about this express stage is i can get that feedback instantly yes you know i can basically have the data on my target audience and then share whatever i've written or whatever a presentation i've designed what doesn't really matter and get feedback from that audience like so for example what i would share with all of you is i surveyed a thousand marketers about loop marketing before inbound and i ran that same survey through a cloud project i made with all of the data about you know our lovely customers and community hubspot it was basically the same it was like the the cloud project was like with it ninety percent accurate of where the survey was survey was thousands of dollars and took a few weeks to run cloud project was you know twenty bucks and it took twenty seconds yeah that's so cool real quick i know you're thinking to yourself okay kip this sounds amazing but what do i actually type in into chat gp we've got you covered that's why we've built the loop marketing prompt library over one hundred prompts that take you from theory to real execution whether you need to craft your style guide personalized emails or get real time insights this is exactly what we're using to grow our business right now get it right now click the link in the description below now let's get back to the show i think you bring up a really good point about the express phase which is it's also contingent on understanding your customer really well and stress testing those concepts against what you know about your customer so it's not just you know you off in a corner doing watercolor it's okay how is this actually gonna resonate with the people that i'm trying to reach yeah so i think we should give people like the if you're gonna go be really successful yeah this and what would you go and do right now i'll start and i'd love for you to add i think you need to collect some qualitative and quantitative data about your audience so you have data about them in hubspot or whatever crm you're using right you also have emails with them support tickets call recordings all of that you need all of that to kinda know who they are and what their problems are relative to your company i think that's the first thing what would you say the next step needs to be i would say get in a room with your core creative team or whoever is responsible for defining your brand and make sure you have a really definitive authentic point of view on who your brand is and then i think you take that brand and style guide and you take all the data that you've just called out that we've collected and you use that to say okay you know claude tell me does this style resonate with this persona and not just does it resonate there are two outages of hubspot that started with brian der mesh when the company started and i think are more important and more true today than they've ever been yeah the first is brian would always say is like is it remarkable and he met like the webster dictionary version of remarkable is it worthy of remark would would somebody talk about that that would they care about that and ai can really help you have a much better chance of predicting if your audience is gonna care really like about something like this thing that you're making which is awesome and i think really important the next part of it is we would always say what do i have you to win the marketing internet this week what what do i the thing in my industry that is being talked about in that given week and that's like a good litmus test for i'm expressing the right ideas yeah because part of what we haven't talked about is like you do have to select the right ideas and like a filter for that is like are people gonna care and are people gonna talk about it and is it gonna be one of the most relevant things in my market this week or this month can i be a headline yeah second can can i be a headline headphones yeah yeah okay so there's a couple ways to get started with express yeah take a time we gotta keep moving let's move on okay let's talk taylor tailoring is very interesting because it really builds on this old notion of personalization this notion of hey i've gotten these personalization tokens and i can fill in these personalization tokens with cool data and my it's gonna make it feel like i know that person in some way cool data might be overs dating it a little bit first name last name company name i was trying to make it seem like your target excited deserved basic may ten years ago as it really was but it is that's where we started where we're at now is completely different so you and your team have done probably more work tailoring especially email than anybody on this planet i would say tell us what you want the digital marketing team has been doing some absolutely bonkers things with personalization i think our coolest learning is we found that if you take a lot of unstructured data about a contact so not just their first name last name company name but the pages on your website that they have visited the content that they've downloaded how they describe their business on their website and you feed that into ai ai can craft these personalized emails that feel like they could have only been written for that individual contact because in truth they were and a person getting that email responds to that email in a totally different way than a fill in the blank mad lives style email that was marketing personalization of old if we are calling us spade to spade yeah and it's really hard without us like taking twenty minutes and showing you all these emails what i would just say is i've had very few holy moments in doing marketing reading these emails was one of them yeah where i remember like very vividly like big on an email thread with you and emmy me and a few people on our team looking at these early versions of them before they even got really good and just being completely blown away i was like oh it felt like somebody was a human spent like an hour researching this company to write this perfect email yeah to this person and instead it happened in seconds it's like your best sales rep who spends the most time crafting their outreach and figuring out what is going to resonate wrote the email but instead it's ai and it's doing it at scale and so we saw i think an eighty two percent improvement in conversion rate from adding personalization email and this is not a new program folks this is not something that you know you can send on wednesday and then you try something new the next week like that is a program that we have been iterating and trying to move the needle on what was double conversion rates on an email program that you have been grinding on for ten plus years yeah is almost impossible yeah so are we tailor people now i'm not i'm i'm not ready to but we are equal i'm i'm not ready to make that commitment no i'm i'm an amplify guy i'm sorry i i can't i i i know where my loyalty live we're gonna get there in a second yeah but when you say that data we're talking about you can use hubspot new data hub product mh you can use our friends over at clay there's a bunch of other third party data sources but what you're really trying to answer is the question what data do i have access to that really gives me unique insights on my audience it's not that i know them at this big kind of general level like the ideal customer profile level it's like no i know them on like the contact company personal level because i have this information and can build a different relationship with them and once you have that then you're taking kind of a core message template and a prompt in generating these personalized emails and we just rolled out that feature in marketing hub we've been doing it very manually and very technically and we're excited to have the help of engineers to help us scale this but it's worked incredibly well yep that's exactly right the old playbook is slowing you down ai broke the funnel loop marketing fixes it it's a new era for marketers ai is capturing search traffic channels are fragmented and generating leads feels less predictable than ever before hubspot loop marketing playbook will guide you through this unprecedented disruption it's the system your marketing team should use to move faster connect deeper and gross smarter the modern growth playbook for the ai era built by hubspot designed for today's marketer get the loop marketing playbook at hubspot dot com slash loop dash marketing to find out more and leave your competition behind okay so this is the i would say the step that you get the most benefit of immediately is tailoring big bobs that you're good data i think you're ready to call that out and that's why we've been banging the drum about data for a while now i agree that but if you have the data i think that you can see some great stuff here okay so we we have a lot of time on it we know we gotta give amplify a few i know get so okay well give kim amplify well i as as i said i'm a self profess fan of the amplified because i believe distribution is undefeated and that when all else fails like get your message in front of people and as long as your message isn't terrible you will win well your message isn't terrible because you've expressed it well and you've tested it i see i see what you're doing there i like it i would say that you know more about ai engine optimization than ninety nine percent of the humans on this planet you've spent a lot of time doing it are citations in per complexity in chat gp thanks to the work you and the amazing team we're doing are going up up and up yep everybody here is like okay i wanna do that what do i need to do yeah so for everybody in the room and everybody watching give us an ae crash course because it's one of the most important parts of amp amplify we'll i'll talk about a couple of other parts but i wanna make sure we get to aa yeah well i will just say it that it is a very nice compliment aa is also very nascent so if you are overwhelmed or nervous or simply don't know what you're talking about well the good news is it us no one dies yeah i know a little more but i still don't know about because it's changing all the time it's a very new field so that's just my little disclaimer like please feel like you can dive in here and and catch up very easily the cool thing about aa is that it breaks down into many of the same pillars that seo did different techniques different tactics and some of the underlying wise are different but i like to think about it as your content tactics your on page or your technical tactics and your off site or authority building tactics i have one clarifying question for the audience because i've had a lot of conversations with ae and i wanna bring it for everybody on the pod yeah is what i used to do a traditional search engine optimization is that foundational and i still need to do that or is that something i need to throw out and do something differently before you break down yeah everything like help help people understand so i'm getting that question over and over all the time i get this question too i would say that the heart of good seo if you were doing seo well you were producing great content that was meant to educate and be valuable for your persona and that i don't think has chain tigers group now the mechanics of it have changed pretty dramatically and the the specific nature of the content that you're producing that's also changed pretty dramatically but as long as you're producing great content like that that is the heart of a good ae strategy as well and people get really nervous when i start talking about and and we can go into it like the hyper long tail content that we are now producing we have gone from publishing the ultimate guide to content marketing which is very broad very generic anyone who wants to do content marketing in this audience could read that guide and we would want you to read that guide and now we wanna talk directly to the marketing manager at a two hundred person logistics company who actually feels pretty good about their lead gen strategy but needs a lot of help you know for ab for enterprise i think this is a very important insight for everybody to understand because when you are going back and forth with an ll you're having a very personal detailed conversation that is just for you right and it's got memory of who you are so it's giving its answers based on who you are and the problem you're trying to solve because of that the information that needs to be provided to both people and robots needs to get more personal and more detail that's that's what you're telling us that is at the crux of it yes when you google something you're probably gonna get a pretty similar result to me when we ask tragedy the same question we are gonna get very different results because tragedy knows that you always like travis kelsey sweaters and then i really like christy dawn dress that i did see that a between history once i've been sitting on that for years i was trying to find this one particular sweater he wore was really good did you find i don't like the ama outfit but i like no i never found because i think it was like you know custom yeah i think it was i think it was a custom pre release kind of situation yeah okay okay so yeah so the content needs to be written or created in the way that ai engines are providing responses and that is very long tail it's very specific it's persona and use case versus here's what this educational content could be for anyone i was talking to an amazing hubspot customer yesterday wilderness motor homes they rent rv in new zealand if you ever wanna go to new zealand you should go and and check them out pro tip and we were talking about the type of content difference and it's like before it'd be like oh here like the ten different rv pass across new zealand and now it would be like no here like the five animals a family from america would wanna see while they were visiting new zealand i think that's what you're saying the level of fidelity change looks like in like a very practical way that is absolutely right i think another key thing for people to understand is that your educational content now needs to be bottom of the funnel in that if wilderness rv publishes is that they can't just publish a a list of animals like they used to they need to be and here's how you can see that give me a yeah i don't know kiwi kiwi i think they are the kiwi yeah used there because the kiwi birds the puff yes you know here's how you see this puff in your wilderness rv yeah like we how you drive there we where you buy the tickets where you get a parking pass yes because if you just feed humans well if you feed ai engines that'll feed humans educational insights without tying it back to your product the ai engine won't know to recommend you and then you're making an ai engine smarter without any benefit to your business okay so your content strategy is changing dramatically it's getting far more specific it's getting more bottom of the funnel and you have to tie your product and your business back to that content in a more deliberate way yeah make sure that you're gonna get relevant recommendation recommendations actual i would say the lasts of the three big a tips i think would be like where else you do need to show up so maybe talk about that for like real quick before we move on to the next stage i think you said it best you said we're optimizing for brand mentions and not backlinks because ai engines do not care about backlinks as a measure of how credible or authoritative your brand is what they do care about is how many out out your brand is getting on places like reddit and linkedin and cora a see lots and nodding heads so it sounds like folks are starting to really pick up on this and that means that you need to deploy your happy customers you need to be active in forums where your customers are and where ai engines are and that is what's going to help you get those recommendations from ai engines shout out to the hubspot subreddit if you're not on there yet join the hubspot subreddit that's to the hubspot shout out to the hubspot community team fantastic partner in that work okay and i think the other nice thing about doing all of those amplification efforts on those channels is that that's also where your humans are that's another part of amplify your creators your advocates like yeah very important to we'll do multiple shows you and i i'll come back and do a show with kieran just on the amplify stage we'll talk in influencers we'll talk events we're gonna talk everything but au is such a big part of how amplification can change that we wanted to dive into it and a year ago it was a decimal point of our traffic yeah now it's a material yeah amount of our traffic and our revenue and i think that can be the same for anybody who is watching right now absolutely and now that a ai engines are referral source and hubspot you can know exactly and they convert much higher so you wanna make sure you put them on a high high speed path towards conversion yeah folks coming from those ai engines well i think that's a great segue because we saw that ai engines visitors from ai engines we're converting at a much higher rate and we're like oh okay let's evolve let's adapt let's optimize in real time yeah so that's the last step here is what you wanna do is learn faster when you're in a period of big transformation learning is your advantage because everybody everybody knows basically the same amount of information sure you and i we've been doing this for months more than people watching this so it's like we don't know that much more than anybody else and if you learn real hard you can catch up or or surpass almost anybody we hope you can do and and i would love that that'd be freaking amazing what we've figured out is you need some time and some tools to focus on really quick learnings and iterations so that you can learn it evolved like you just give a great example we saw that the conversion rate from chat gp traffic for example was really high and so okay well now we need to change our conversion paths and the other aspects rail that buyer's journey to make sure that those people can become customers as easy as possible yeah if i can actually tide in a bow for us tied in this loop now you're i really get into it we saw that ai engine visitors were converting at three x the rate and so we told that to our product team who said oh okay great we need to carve this out for customers that needs to be easy what they also did was they're like oh you should start personal to folks that are coming from management because we know but they are higher intent and so we need to show them different things on our landing pages and so that i believe is a very possible right now yeah you could now do dynamic personalization just for people coming from the l which is which is really amazing right so it's this idea of like seeing something and acting on it the next day there's no longer like too you can't be acting two months later you need to be acting tomorrow if you use hubspot i would say on this of all stage you should use either breeze assistant or you should connect hubspot with chat gp or claude and use that ability to just text or talk i use this app called willow voice that i could just dictate and it's even faster because typing is too slow because i have problems he once told me you're like our biggest problem is that we don't have enough time and i was like wow that's a good problem to have that's how i feel but you could ask very good questions just like the ceo of complexity was talking about this morning it's curiosity questions and that's what evolves is about can you ask the right questions without needing a big data analyst or having to comb through a spreadsheet or a dashboard to get unique insights about a tactic or a campaign yeah and then the biggest thing is you need to take that lesson share that with your team share that with your ai tools so that it's just part of how you do marketing going forward you can kinda close the loop and you learn you get that compounding benefit from doing it better every time yes going forward yeah well you close the loop and then you restart the next loop smarter that's what i love you're not done with the loop the loop keeps going no i will say is a team that's been doing loop marketing the biggest change i've noticed i've be interested what yours is yeah the conversations we have are very different before they were very problem centric mh now they're very much learning centric like i have learned this thing yeah and i want to go do something and scale or this thing based on what i've learned yeah versus like i'm just kinda stuck will you help me solve this problem yeah it's been a very drastic difference to me well we have these experimental pods set which i think is a very tactical way to kind of bring that life and something that certainly any business could do we've said okay you three people your whole mission right now is actually just to learn as quickly as possible and you're gonna share your learnings every week so the rest of us learn with you you're gonna have a pretty open field like we're gonna give you some high level goals we know it you should be running toward but the way that you run that's up to you and i think that that doesn't just apply to the learnings from that pod it's really brought the entire team up i think if you're leading a marketing team right now you have to find some space for the team to experiment and then you have to give them bold challenge like the whole four minute mile problem nobody ran a four minute mile until everybody ran a four minute mile right like once i'm never it running like a ten minute mile probably but that's that is what it is but don't say hey go make this ten percent better go double this yeah is is what we mean is like have a really high aspiration yeah okay we got a couple minutes left yeah we wanna leave everybody in person and is watching online with some things that you should go do immediately so go through for express what is the one thing you would tell somebody to go do right now i'm gonna say style guide i think style guide is really important if you don't already have it and if you do go back to it and see doesn't actually reflect your brand do you feel like it as punchy as authentic as could be i love that i would add like make sure you have a section of that is like what my audience thinks is cool like what are the things that they love and appreciate that like i could uniquely deliver for them because that is what's going to set you apart in this next era love that okay tailoring it's literally getting the right data and start testing email and you'll end up starting testing i think pretty small very small groups yep a lot of human review but i think you'll eventually find a workflow that works for your company what would you add i mean i think dynamic email and dynamic landing pages yep those are the two where you're gonna see some really nice returns alright a give us the what you would go do crash course right now aa west if you don't know your personas from step one get to know your personas and then start mapping out the unique questions that each persona is gonna be asking figure out where you have content figure out where you don't and start creating that super long tail content alright i love that for revolve setup up use brief assistant or git your chat gp jim and i or claude connected with your hubspot data and start asking that data really curious and interesting questions about the specific projects or campaigns you've been running so that you can learn how to make them better the next time when you close the loop yeah and i would say philosophically like embrace the learning mindset we're all learning right now it's a super fun it's a super interesting era marketing like soak that up it's never been a more fun time to be at mark never been marketing a long time i wake up every day super excited and you wake up every day to a lot of slacks for me and and that's basically how life goes that's how it goes thank you so much for having us everybody i hope that you dig into the loop thank you all see you real soon