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Seth Godin Week - Seth to Speak at Inbound Marketing Summit

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We have decided to declare this week "Seth Godin Week" on the HubSpot Internet Marketing Blog.  We'll publish an article each day related to Seth, his books, his blog and/or his ideas.

Why are we doing a "Seth Godin Week"?  Well, Seth Godin will be speaking at the Inbound Marketing Summit marketing conference in Boston/Cambridge on September 8.

I am very excited to meet Seth and see him speak!

But, today, let's talk about how Seth got his start.  Permission Marketing.  He wrote a book of this title back in 1999.  What is Permission Marketing? Basically, it refers to all of the marketing techniques where you are gaining people's permission before you start to market to them.  TV ads?  Nope, they interrupt the show I am trying to watch.  Telemarketing?  No way!  Rented email lists... nope!  Getting found in things like search engines, providing useful information people actually want to consume, and using viral marketing techniques are some of the principles behind permission marketing.  Over the years I think permission marketing has evolved into Inbound Marketing, now that things like blogging, social networks, SEO and other techniques have become more of a complete discipline.  Seth Godin talks about 5 Levels of Permission in the book, and how marketers start at the lowest level (level 5, "situation" and work your way up - if you are good.  Here is some info about each level, I borrow language extensively from the book here.

The Five Levels of Permission Marketing

  1. Intravenous.  Your doctor has your permission to put whatever she wants into your arm, and then charge you for the treatment and expect you to pay.  The marketer who has this level of permission can make buying decisions on behalf of the buyer.  The only downside is if you mess it up, you'll lose the permission.  Automatic replenishment of the spring water in your office or the oil in your home are examples of this.  Why do people submit to this type of marketing?  To save time, to save money, because some people don't like to make a choice, and to avoid stock outs.
  2. Points.  Airline frequent flier miles and credit card points are examples of this level of permission marketing.  People opt-in to these programs because of the benefits you give them.  They give you permission to track their purchases and to send them special offers based on their purchase patterns.
  3. Personal relationships.  This form of permission ranks behind "points" because it doesn't scale.  [In 2008, I actually think that things like blogging and social networking might allow this to scale better, maybe making it #2.  - Mike Volpe]  This is the form of marketing used in very large transactions, like on Wall Street and on Madison Avenue.  When you have a personal relationship, you have permission to ask questions, see if someone is interested in a new service, and recommend other products.  Again, if you mess it up, you'll lose the permission, so be smart.
  4. Brand trust. This is the type of trust that outbound interruption marketers aspire to hold (it is scary that they only aspire to stage #2!).  Brand trust is dramatically overrated.  It's extraordinarily expensive to create, takes a very long time to develop, is hard to measure, and is harder still to manipulate.  You can use brand trust to create brand extensions, or cross sell other products.  But the first time you break the trust by not keeping the customer's best interest at heart, you'll damage the value of your brand greatly.
  5. Situation. This is the permission you get when a customer calls your 800 number or asks a store clerk for advice, etc. Compared to TV ads or other interruption marketing, this situation gives the average marketer a lot more options.  Remember that your employees who deal with customers and prospects are the tool to use for situational permission.  McDonald's has generated billions with the situational permission phrase of "Do you want fries with that?".  The question later became "Do you want to Super Size that?", and maybe they ruined their brand value by not keeping their customer's health in mind, leading to the movie "Super Size Me".

 

How to you bring the concepts of Permission Marketing into your company?  What level of permission have you attained?  Have any of Seth Godin's books or ideas influenced your marketing?  Leave a comment so we can discuss.

 

Internet Marketing Kit


Posted by Mike Volpe on Mon, Aug 04, 2008 @ 08:29 AM

COMMENTS

Not quite sure how TV commercials aren't included in the Permission Marketing. Granted that they are not related to the program that I am watching but they do have my permission to display them. When I sit down to watch a live TV show I know that i am going to watch some commercials too. If I don't want to see the commercials I have to wait for the DVR to record it so I can fast forward. I understand how they aren't on the list but they feel more like a grey area to me and less like an absolute you don't have my permission.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 10:44 AM by Ben Katt


Thanks Mike. Great post. 
 
Ben, TV commercials aren't permission based for a simple reason: if they disappeared, you wouldn't miss them.  
 
They exist for the advertiser, not the viewer. Until you change your perspective, none of this will make sense. But in a world of consumer attention power, it all makes perfect sense.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:39 AM by seth godin


So then along the lines of a commercial, are PPC and banner ads the same idea. They are more interruptive? Or are they permissive because we have to choose to click on them? 
 
 
 
Also, can you give an example of the intravenous marketing? Trying to wrap my head around it!

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 12:15 PM by Melissa Maning


I agree that TV ads interrupt you. That's why I use my DVR to fast forward throguh them all. Banner ads are somewhat interruptive, but probably a bit less so, and I think PPC ads are even less interruptive, since they only appear on the topic you are searching for at the time (but still 80% of people don't click on them). 
 
 
 
Intravenous is less about "marketing" and more about the permission you have with the customer. An example would be the oil company where you give them permission to top off your tank and send you a bill whenever they want. Permission marketing is more about the relationship than any "marketing" that's the whole point.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 1:37 PM by Mike Volpe


TV ads have become an easy rant target because Tivo (and DVRs) have, over the past few years, allowed us to "skip" them. 
 
TV ads are, however, a necessary part of the permission marketing that takes place in the world of broadcast communications. Commercials are packaged with consumers' expectations to get free content. If you didn't have advertising to support it, it wouldn't be "free." From a broadcaster or producer's perspective, TV ads allow TV to happen. 
 
What would happen if we didn't have TV ads? We'd have pay-per-view TV, or what the DVD market has become. (Even DVDs have commercials: they keep the overall costs lower.) 
 
As TV ad rates decline because of people skipping the ads on Tivo, the broadcasters will need to a) charge more for the content (or just charge something), b) interject or worsen the commercial interruption, or c) enforce a high level of creative quality to ensure consumer engagement. 
 
When fast-forwarding through commercials, even I stop for the good ones; Apple's ads are not only funny, but their stark white backgrounds make it easy for me to spot while at speed "FFx3." 
 
Seth Godin says that TV ads "exist for the advertiser, not the viewer." I disagree. Commercials are a viewing experience necessary for a point of engagement to occur -- between the viewer, advertiser, and broadcaster. In order to work, the commercial must provide the consumer with a positive experience. That hasn't happened recently, and viewers are taking action to change their behavior. 
 
But if there were more commercials that really enticed and held up to scrutiny, advertisers would have viewers' permission.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 2:43 PM by Alec McNayr


@Alec 
 
 
 
I guess I diagree. The ads on TV stand between me and the content I actually watch. No matter how funny or good they may be, I still have to watch them when the network puts them on. There is no permission! When I turn on my TV it doesn't say "would you like to watch some ads?" Part of the reason they are not permission based in not the content, but how they are delivered. I am forced to watch, there is no permission. 
 
 
 
This is why people pay extra money for pay channels like HBO, which have programming without ads. This is also why people pay extra money for DVR/TiVo to fast forward through the ads. And also why people pay extra money to buy or rent TV shows on DVD to watch without the ads. It is true that maybe 0.1% of ads are somewhat entertaining. But I still have to watch them when I am told to watch them, not when I want to.  
 
 
 
In contrast, think about YouTube. I search for what I want. When I am watching an ad there, it is permission based because I selected it from search results. If you have an ad that is entertaining, I would call it a viral video and what you should do is put them on YouTube and not spend millions to put them on TV. If they are funny, people will find them,a nd they will even share them with their friends for you. 
 
 
 
Watch for my post tomorrow about a viral ad that has been watched 2 million times on YouTube. Sure, its an ad, but that ad is great content and because I watch it on YouTube when and how I feel like it, it is permission based.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 5:54 PM by Mike Volpe


Commercials are positively, irrefutably interruption marketing. And I agree with Seth that in regards to most commercials, I wouldn't miss them if they vanished overnight. However, there is still that miniscule proportion that grab our attention and ultimately become part of our ongoing cultural dialogue. Take, for instance, the "Make 7-Up Yours" campaign starring/written by Orlando Jones. The TV audience loved it, and 7-Up experienced sale euphoria. Or, more recently, Apple's "1-2-3-4 Tell Me That You Love Me More" commercial sung by Feist; she had been on the music scene for years, but that commercial made such a connection with the audience that her career has since exploded. 
 
All I'm saying is that YES, the vast majority of commercials are an annoyance we would all be happy without. But the select few that weren't a waste of our time would be sorely missed and our cultural landscape wouldn't be the same without them.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 6:20 PM by Jacqueline Staph


Don't get me wrong. I certainly agree that TV ads are disruptions from the content we want to watch on TV. My DVR skips commercials like the rest of them. 
 
I also agree that distaste for TV ads has pushed viewers to other types of viewing experiences, including time-shifting (Tivo), subscription-paying (HBO), owning/renting (DVDs/Netflix), viewing online (YouTube, etc.), or pirating/stealing. All of those are reasonable (even if illegal) consumer reactions to the broken relationship between broadcasters/advertisers and their viewing audience. 
 
But certainly we can't envision a world where advertising won't underwrite most mainstream content, right? My point was simply that advertising comes with the territory, and that consumers shouldn't get angry about ads when they get TV shows delivered to their doorstep for free (TV shows that cost studios and distributors millions... or cost independent producers like me thousands). 
 
TV ads are simply a trade-off between time and cost for the consumer. No ads? Higher cost. And I consider acceptance of that trade-off to be permission. 
 
Regarding online content, YouTube is similarly is trying to sell ads against their video inventory, but can't on the majority of it because they don't have the rights to do so. 
 
So how does YouTube stay in business? It's underwritten by Google, who has a stake in developing information (likes, dislikes, viewing habits) on each IP address and user account.  
 
Giving away some amount of data privacy seems to be a price most people are happy paying. but the same was true of TV ads, in the beginning.  
 
The permission model (or lack of permission) is the same -- we give up something to watch something for free.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 7:08 PM by Alec McNayr


We use contests as a fun way to market our brand and build a community. I think of it as permission marketing because you choose whether to enter or not. If you enter, you have given us your permission to keep you informed about the contest. It's completely voluntary and we get to stay more connected with our entering customers.

posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 at 8:30 PM by Jean Wnuk


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