Success Story with Scott D. Clary

indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from indeed seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at a four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that use ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need companies using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform choosing if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed build for what's now and what's next in tech hiring in this lessons episode we're exposing my luck find some people and not others derek sieve sold company for twenty two million and everyone said he got lucky what they missed was that he'd been building for eleven years while his competitors quit at year two luck isn't random it's probability that increases if you position right and don't leave i'll speak about two conditions that make you actually find when opportunity shows up and my most people quit eighteen months before luck would have arrived this is how you make yourself luck here derek sieve sold cd baby for twenty two million dollars in two thousand eight and everyone called it luck right place right time the internet boom caught the away right but what they didn't see is that he'd been building music distribution systems since nineteen ninety seven so eleven years of showing up before the big exit and during those eleven years dozens of other music distribution companies started and most quit within two years some made it five years before selling for nothing or shutting down but derek was still there in year eleven when the buyer showed up so was selling for twenty two million lucky absolutely the buyer could have picked any competitor timing could have been different a dozen variables outside of derek control had to align but here's what people miss derek created the conditions for luck to find him and then he stuck around long enough for it to show up and that's not the same as just working hard and it's not the same as just getting lucky it is something else entirely see a lot of us don't understand what luck actually is most people think about luck and binary terms either you got lucky and you didn't deserve it it was just random chance or you earned it so hard work means no luck involved right this is wrong this is a lie and believing it's how luck works destroys your ability to actually benefit from luck so here's what actually happens luck is always involved in any success story but some people create conditions where luck can find them and others don't so when someone wins a lottery that is pure luck they bought a ticket anyone could have won the work required was minimal the outcome was random but when someone builds a company for ten years and gets acquired that's also luck but it's a different kind of luck because they didn't just show up they position themselves in a place where good luck could reach them and then they stayed there long enough for it to arrive the difference isn't deserved versus un the difference is probability see pure luck has the same odds for everyone who participate you buy a lottery ticket you have a one and three hundred million chance of winning but earned luck has better odds so you build something valuable for ten years in a growing market you have a one in fifty chance that somebody wants to buy it so it's still luck but it's much better odds now most people don't understand this distinction so they either work hard and get better when luck doesn't show up or they wait for luck and get bitter when hard work doesn't make it appear or they get lucky once and they believe it was all skill or they watch others get lucky and believe it was all chance all four of these ideas miss what's actually happening but let me explain how this works with the story from my own life i have been writing online for a very long time i would say total writing anything online over five years i guess the current newsletter that i put out has been about three years but i've been writing for a very long time because it's been multiple previous iterations of writing and i've killed some of these projects but say the first two years i've ever written anything nothing happened i wrote every week sometimes multiple times per week and the engagement sucked it was flat there was no opportunities no growth just showing up to an empty right and year three which was really around the time when i started this newsletter someone with fifty thousand followers shared one of my pieces traffic spiked i got five hundred new subs in a week so was that luck completely they could have shared anyone they could have never seen my work there was a dozen different variables that had to align for them to share my work but what people don't see is i published well over a hundred pieces before that person ever saw my work and if i'd quit at newsletter fifty or newsletter one hundred i wouldn't have been there when they went looking for something to share and that is the definition of earned luck i didn't make them share my work but i made sure there was work to share when they were looking now you're four into my writing career i got invited to speak at a very large conference decent size paid well changed the entire trajectory of my career how did i get invited well the person who shared my newsletter in year three had recommended me to the person who was putting on the conference because they like my work see that is luck stacked on luck but both pieces of luck required the same thing i was still there still publishing still building when opportunity showed up see most people quit for luck has a chance to find them they work hard for six months see no results decide it's not working they were building the conditions but they left before the luck could show up now you understand there are different kinds of luck there's pure luck and earned luck but this is really what makes earned luck different from pure luck the probability of earned luck increases over time it compounds if you're positioned right so with pure luck lottery ticket right you buy a lottery ticket once your odds are one in three hundred million if you buy a lottery ticket every week for ten years your odds are still one in three hundred million each ticket is independent but if you build something valuable your odds start low you start a company you write a newsletter you start a podcast podcasts put content on social media the odds start low but they increase with time if you're in the right place so year one of you building your company you're unknown no network no track record odds of a big break are pretty close to zero year five you have a body of work a network that knows you proof you can deliver so your odds are meaningfully better year ten you have become unavoidable in your niche odds are legitimately good that something happens now this only works this formula only works if two conditions are met your position in a place where opportunity exists and you don't leave before luck shows up and most people fail at both they position themselves in a place with no opportunity or they position themselves right but they quit too early now why do people make this mistake well a few reasons but the first mistake is they confuse effort with positioning so you can work incredibly hard in a place where luck will never find you the odds never improve and you're just grinding with no probability of a breakthrough so working eighty hours a week in a dead end job isn't creating conditions for earned luck you're working hard but you're not positioning yourself anywhere that luck can actually reach you now writing a novel for five years but never showing it to anyone also isn't positioning you're creating something but you're hiding it from the mechanisms that could create opportunity see effort matters but only if it's happening in a place where luck can find you now the second mistake people make is leaving right before probability catches up so most people quit around month eighteen right before their work is starting to compound right when they're starting to be known right before the probability curve starts working in their favor see they work hard they position themselves right then they left before luck could show up and this is one of the most painful things to watch because they did everything right except stay long enough now let's go back to derek and cd baby derek sieve didn't just work hard for eleven years he positioned himself in the exact place where opportunity would eventually show up he built something that musicians needed in a market that was growing with a model that created leverage and then he stayed there while his competitors quit while the market shifted well years passed with no big exits in sight but by year eleven he was one of the few people still standing in that space and when a buyer showed up looking to acquire a music distribution company there weren't many options left now was it lucky that the buyer showed up yes it lucky they chose cd baby yes but derek spent eleven years making himself one of the only options that is not pure luck that is earned luck the buyer was gonna show up eventually music distribution was valuable someone would want to consolidate that market that was predictable what wasn't predictable was which company would still be there when the buyer arrived and derek made sure it was him now what does this mean for your life you can't force luck but you can make yourself luck here not through positive thinking not through manifestation through positioning and persistence position yourself in a place where opportunity exists where the thing you're building has a chance of matter and where luck can actually find you if it shows up and then stay there long past when it feels like it's working long past when others quit see most people leave right before probability catches up they work hard for eighteen months see no results decide they're unlucky but they weren't unlucky they just didn't stay long enough luck doesn't show up on a schedule you cannot force it to arrive in year two or you're five but you can make sure that you're still there when it does arrive that is the thing that you can control see the people who seem lucky aren't luck than you they positioned themselves better and they didn't leave that is the whole game position persist be there when the luck shows up because luck will show up eventually if you're in the right place but that only matters if you're still there when it does claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under prepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that 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indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from indeed seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at a four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that uses ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need companies using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform choosing if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed built for what's now and what's next in tech hiring my adult children pushed me to tell a authentic story eat my drive for excellence fear failure and the depressive episodes they experienced when i was going through them in my case over the decades i sought it out help and learn to really listen to my body he turned a small accessory shop into a global luxury icon lou frankfurt is the visionary behind the rise of coach transforming it from a niche leather goods company to a worldwide lifestyle brand when you're running a growing business you can never be complacent even with success you need to be relentless do need to make raw career decisions to find the right destiny the logic comes from analytics collaboration and the magic comes from imagination and beliefs his leadership is about more than growth it's about craftsmanship authenticity and sustainable legacy building through bold risks and unwavering values redefined what a luxury brand could be be open to possibilities maintain a feeling that things are possible life is a journey challenge itself to become a better version of yourself he so lou first of all thank you so much for for coming on the podcast i'm really excited about this i guess my main question to just kick this off is ten years after you left coach a decade after you you know quote unquote retired from that season of your life what prompted you to cod your life put it in writing speak about the things that you went through what was the thing right now that's made you write bag man which is the book that's coming out the story behind the and improbable rise of coach what was the the inflection point right now that pushed you to do that and write that it's a it's a great question and su simply my adult children on all of of whom are involved in some way in in business who i'm very close with and actually pushed me to tell a authentic story that not only discusses my values on and building an iconic brand but my drive for excellence fear or failure and the depressive episodes that they experienced as my children when i was going through them and one of the reasons they wanted me to do this is was because i've been mentoring people gen z millennials even gen x and baby boomers people of all ages are both in portfolio companies where we're active as well as friends of friends who have been going through transitions and almost invariably when i meet with someone who is going through some form of transition there's anxiety there's fear this and they they get hardened when i'm able to share with them that they're not alone that it's very frequent and very commonplace place and where i discussed it techniques that i've used both to identify low periods as they were coming and the actions i took to prevent them from slipping further and to avoid them because your body doesn't lie to you so when you're all under stress the what you're feeling can turn into insomnia it can turn into waking up with terrible dreams and sweats fatigue loss of mojo a feeling that you might even be an impostor or you don't really have have you can lose a lot of confidence and so i'm someone who went through a lot of this very although in my case over the decades i i sought it out help in a in a variety of areas and learn to really listen to my body and i encourage others to do that talk to me about some of the things that you have like some just high level themes about going through high pressure high environment situations because again you grew coach from successful to just ultra successful over the course of your career ipo like i think twelve billion plus minus around the time when you were at its peak that's not a low stress environment so when somebody is operating at that level what are the things that they are dealing with that the public that the outside doesn't see that you are dealing with internally that you've had to deal with through your life when not when you're running a growing business particularly a rapidly growing business especially in discretionary categories where fashion or style makes a difference you can never be complacent even with success so whenever you reach a milestone yes it's important to acknowledge and celebrate but you need to be relentless and in being relentless ceo jobs are twenty four seven and it's i'm really talking about share of mind and it's really very important to find ways to turn that off to be able to compartment not only for balance in life but for renewal and refreshing and and i start with exercise very important i mentioned earlier listening to your body and that might lead to massage it might lead to it might lead to yoga it might lead to therapy and all of these things can be really helpful depending on where you are and in your journey and to your to your point gen z is a very different generation and when we talk about societal shifts they're occurring at galactic speed and attention spans are going down younger younger people are looking for self actual rationalization are looking for fulfillment wasn't a long ago when when you looked at a thirty year old who was a college graduate and you asked how many jobs did they have since school maybe one point three today it's six or seven and what when on your parents and i went to work the thought was it was a career and that you weren't looking to self actual you were looking to a mas hierarchy depending on where you sat you went to the better life for yourself for those around you what was the the framework or the decision free that you went through in your head to figure out where you wanted to end up said differently did you always think that you wanted to be a leader you wanted to work in incorporate you wanted to build something great was that something that you knew from a young age or did this this journey into ceo of coach was that more just something that happened through just figuring things out and trying different things and and learning up and ending in different places along the way it's a combination of things one of the things for my experience and many others what i often say is you need to make raw career decisions to find the right destiny and i encourage people who have the discretion to explore to see what really gives them fulfillment for myself from the early days i felt i was a natural leader i was present of my student body hunter college in my senior year and i'm i i i ran as an activist on anti war platform the vietnam war had divided the country i felt social justice was very important and i always was value driven and when i went into city government i knew that i wanted to be a service i wanted to improve the quality of life of new new york in new york and i went to work initially for an inspirational mayor john lindsay and over the next ten years i had a series of positions culminating in running head start in day during the city's fiscal crisis and i felt my customer so to speak was children and their families and i wanted to do everything i can to give them the highest level service with qualified staff in clean facilities with the right type of support programs so i was very focused on service and i built a team of like minded individuals who were looking out for the greater good now that period of your life there was a point where i find this very interesting in your story you were called two principled and that's what led to that particular two principled you were passed over for promotion and that was a catalyst that eventually put you on the path to coach so speak to me about the concept of of being too principled what that actually means and and what does that say to who you are as a person and your character and sort of what you're put on this earth to do i've always been a believer in speaking truth to power and i'd like to say informed truth to power not just the highest paid opinion but a studied view looking at all of the constituencies all of the issues involved and when i first started in city government i i was not in an environment with my leaders were concerned with the greater good to the extent that i felt was appropriate and warranted and i found i an opportunity with someone who became a mentor and eventually a very close friend who was really focused on re reducing education educational inequality who was concerned with the immigrants and let's call it the under class people who were coming into the united states to give them the type of tools that where they could have a better life for themselves and their families and that was very motivational when i took the job of running heads start in daycare during the city's fiscal crisis i i said to the deputy mayor at the time if i do this i want no political interference because it's a hard enough job as it is you and my and the job was to really bring the programs into compliance with federal owned state law which meant that i had to with analytics look at the numb the percentage of children who are eligible who were receiving cab because you needed to be below a certain household income you you also needed to have staff within these programs who were qualified i've got no interference from city hall however there was a congressman at the time at koch who came to my office and i had been fore one that he was interested in protecting a particular program and by this time my team and i we did analytics and try to understand against the set of criteria we ranked programs and that particular program was in the bottom ten percent of programs that only add as an example fifteen percent eligible children meaning could i only find income verification for one other of seven kids the other six kids presumably came from more affluent households and i said to him congressman i i like to just show share with you why i don't think that's possible he said i don't wanna see that i just want you to save the program very polite he walked out little did i realize that he would become my boss about eighteen months later when he was elected mayor of the city in new york so he became mayor and i continued to work in the agency for child development day care had thought and there was an opportunity to basically have a be able to shape on union contracts and the workforce in the city in new york i i'm a very big believer in merit hypocrisy and really a big believer that you need to have metrics to measure how people work whether it was in government elsewhere and i was passed i did not i was passed over despite lots of support within the city in new york and when i went to see the mayor he said to me privately louie just too principled and what he basically meant was that he could not trust that i would follow his position or authority as mayor in situations where i felt the city would be better off doing something else when you think about after this period in your in your life and you think about the next career step it would also be obviously there's lots of good corporations out there but i think there's lots of corporations where i think people would also find that being too principled would actually be a detriment to your growth within the corporation depending on the company right so talk to me about i know your personality i know what you stand for how did you make the entrance into into corporate america into leadership being who you are and wanting to work with a company that works with people who are of the same sort of caliber and ethos as as you was was coach the first stop or were there other things along the way that didn't work out great question a coach was actually the first first and only stop after government and it was serendipity i had not even updated by resume yet and i was in the yellow taxi was someone who was an adjunct professor at columbia university and also an a e w official in washington who had oversight for programs like hats start and was familiar with my work i had just spoken at it one of it's graduate classes where there was a case study on the work i did in day we share a taxi going downtown and he said what do you do for a non encore and i said great question i have no idea but i i need to leave government and he said well i have a friend who has a small pocket the company a childhood friend on who's sixty years old and he's looking for a pro from outside the industry who has good values and i i thought to myself well i think i have good values and i'm certainly from outside the industry and he set up an appointment for me with the a founder of the business and what occurred in the from the appointment time to my getting the job and taking it early on being eternally curious i did my do i did some due diligence because i i had barely heard of coach it would i somewhat windy need to mention the name coach for me to know that it was a handbag company i wouldn't be able to have done that an una the winner so i pretended to be a business week reporter and i called and visited places where i spoke with the bloom dale buyer that bon tell general manager and others who said that coach was a small brand very strong following the founder regulated production and they often ran out of product by thanksgiving but people really loved coach for my last interview i visited a small handbag store on the west side of manhattan on seventy second street there were back then in the seventies there were many many small groups of stores mom and pop stores small chains it was before the department stores basically drove most of them out of business and so i go into the specialty store and i say i don't see a coach bag and i say dear you carry coach and the owner said yes and went under the counter lifted one coach bag and she said it's not just i only have one bag now and it's and it's reserved for a loyal coach consumer and they said tell me about coach and she said it had a coat following and that intrigued me the idea that people felt passionate about coach and it gave me a sense of purpose to try to understand what were the qualities of the brand that emmett resonated with people that encourage them to buy coach rather than another brand or a no name brand and that curiosity i brought two coach and early on of consumer insights and data analytics became a cornerstone of the way in which i learned the business and to some extent led the business do you feel like it's a a little bit of a superpower to have no pre conceived notions as a leader going in just blank slate but also following up on that how do you do it successfully when a lot of people from outside industries try and go into them and they don't they don't actually work out i don't think it's actually a superpower what i do believe for the right person who is curious coming in with no predisposition and having a willingness and openness to explore best practices trends understanding the three sixty perspective of a company which is product brand marketplace team and so forth is i think something that people can learn from the outside without predisposition and in fact it it shows up in corporate america every day today hubspot is a success story partner now think about listening to this podcast right now you're probably multitasking you're probably catching seventy to eighty percent of what we're talking about but let's flip that and imagine you're only catching twenty percent that'd be crazy right it's really not a good use of your time if you only remember twenty percent of what we're talking about but most businesses most entrepreneurs are only using twenty percent of their data all the most important details in call logs emails chat with their customers it's just left floating in digital space not being used to hubspot it gives you the access to those insights to help you grow your business because when you know more you grow more visit hubspot dot com to get the full picture of your business today nets sweet is a success story partner now what is a future hold for business if you ask nine x experts will get ten answers bull market bear market rates are up rates are down at the end of the day it'd just be easier somebody invented a crystal ball but until then over forty three thousand businesses a future proof themselves with nets sweet by oracle a number one ai cloud erp that brings accounting financial management inventory and hr into one unified platform here's what i love about it instead of juggling multiple systems you get one source of truth real time insights and forecasting to actually let you peer into the future with actionable data when you're closing your books in days instead of weeks you're spending 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show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com slash terms and conditions apply hiring do it the right way with indeed what do you think was because now you have your in coach they have a cult following so so obviously they have a a cult i guess you can define it as like not enormous group but very like a very niche group of people that absolutely love the brand so your job now is to carry on a legacy is i guess the founder wants to to retire at some point and you have to find a way to take the cult appeal and then and then you have to find a way to get the world to have that same love for the brand as this as a smaller group of people but you also at the same time can't dilute dilute what made it special to those small that small group so what do you end up what you end up doing that is so successful what's your what's the magic well before we get to the magic i was or the the of the combination of magic of logic when you i realized i was going from a position where i had three or four hundred people that reported directly into me within the agency to situation where it's gonna have it a desk outside the founders office so first thing i needed to do was built his confidence that i could actually get things done and and and i also had to work within the guidelines that he allowed me to operate and to the founders credit he believed that there was an opportunity for us to reach consumers directly without middle men because when i joined coach we sell to anyone who pay their bills even late and we had no direct no direct consumer business alright so one of the very first assignments i undertook was starting to a mail order business a catalog business and in order to do that i had to learn the catalog business and i had to learn what success looked like and i used my investigative skills to to meet veterans in the industry study best practices and and developed we developed a successful catalog business and but even before the catalog business i shared the founders desire to gain control over our destiny because i also looked at brands around the world even before i started a coach but especially in the first six to twelve months while a coach and there was one brand that really got my attention and there was a small french brand called louis vuitton and they had only about twenty stores at the time and that was the only way they distributed their product they did not sell through the wholesale channel and they had complete control over the environment over service levels over merchandising and i thought to myself that if we could open stores retail stores and actually be able to express the full personality of the brand or that it would lead to even faster growth and more loyalty and there would be a laboratory for us to real time here and see what consumers are saying about product two years after i joined coach i convinced the founder to allow us to open a our first full price store which we opened on eight sixty fifth street in madison avenue and it was a in october forty feet by eleven so four hundred and fifty square feet longer and narrow and with a full basement and for twenty five thousand dollars we we created library walls and and treated our put our bags which at the time were online leather bags on the shelves library styles so you could see the gus it in the range of colors and that christmas we had lines down outside the store down to the corner about hundred feet away and i knew that we had something that was special and if there was a way for us to scale it we would could we would be a very successful what i called multi channel business at the time there were no other american manufacturers that had a fleet of storage they all sold to third parties and some were starting catalog businesses so we did over a million dollars in the first year and four hundred and fifty feet the average ticket might have been a hundred dollars which meant lots of transactions why when you say boundless growth opportunity was was was there truly boundless growth opportunities or were there things that had to be layered on take it to the next level so it's yes multi channel for sure interesting actually choice that the founder had never gone i guess the the the more modern way of saying it is like direct to consumer but that's that's that was just a strategic choice at the time and i guess it's a little bit more expensive to take a product and launch a store it's like a little bit more high risk than going through establish that channels i i don't know rather felt the their brand like that that this it's very capital intensive and of course now that we're in the digital age and perhaps thirty percent of discretionary repurchase in the united states maybe even high out or online the stores brands that have stored up have reduced their physical footprint to adjust societal changes where people are spending more online catalog is not and does not require a capital so we started with a mail order business you the capital was the course of the catalog but you do your economics and you understand when you layer in the course of the product and the course of the marketing what you would need to break even or be profitable i i i will say being an outsider even though i had been worn by an insider before we he opened the the first store that i might need to go back to city government he said because the first store was going to fail i'll for multiple reasons first we would be thrown out of bloom dale which was down the street and second people would not wanna buy coach in its own store and well before we opened the store i was asked by my colleague who ran sales revenue to meet with a chairman and the bloom girls out who wasn't who was an icon marvin trail and i went to his office i'm just blocks away from my coach store which was under construction and i went into this conference room formal conference room everyone was wearing suits not me at the time but the department in store staff and i was waiting to get blister by this fellow and marvin t and this guy that was with me and i only brought one one other person with me the rent fellow had the relationships and he said wait until you hear what marvin says before the meeting started i had seen his picture of course in women's wear daily and elsewhere yeah he he came to the conference room when asked that luke come out and i went out i went outside the conference room just the two of us and he said to me lou i'm going to tell you when we go into the room that you're doing the most i'm partner like thing you can imagine is that it's gonna jeopardize our future and that you're not a good partner but what i want you to what i wanna tell you but you must never say anything about this to anyone particularly the fellow was working with it's the smartest thing you could do open your own thoughts because he was a visionary and he understood consumers and he understood trends and consumers were looking to have more intimate experiences with brands that they cherish talk to me about the idea of magic and logic so where did this come into play when did when did you first think about the the concept of magic and logic as it relates to coach so you've obviously now the stores you you're building out stores successful the whole brand is is is going in the right direction why did you why did you come up with this particular philosophy when we say on logic and magic we can we can say science and art we can say left brain right brain and the way we came up with the term was due to a presentation that we needed to make to the chairman of the one of the five leading pop stores in japan and this was back in nineteen eighty eight the department star's name was mit ko and i was introducing this new concept of coach in japan and for background japan at the time did not have local significant local brands the economy in the late eighties as it is today is really act shaped with almost no poverty because of limited immigration in the social support systems basically a that shaped economy middle class of course now there's some needles at the top with people that our billionaires adds but but the reality was that european luxury brands dominated japan and they every household that could remotely say or afford food savings had a luxury bag which they coveted and and i'm talking the leading grants at the time was l gucci prada to name a few and the market had not grown for many years so it was a five billion dollar market there's the population in japan really wasn't was not growing and people so there weren't more households than these bags or forever so we needed to change we needed to provide a distinctive product that would meet the needs of younger people and now i'm i'm bridging from your question and magic and logic i'm actually telling you how we employ both magic and logic and it was clear to us from all of our research and analytics and interviews that i did myself that were translated into english if indeed the person did not speak english that japanese women in nineteen ninety who were graduated from college were looking at professional careers they were not looking to be immediately married they wanted to travel they wanted to be able to express themselves and with that societal trend which we evidenced by tourists coming into our stores in hawaii into third party retailers like duty free shoppers in their own handful of by that time ten or fifteen stores that these were young women looking for product that they could relate to emotionally that also gave them good value and we went into japan ins waiting ourselves as an alternative to european luxury grand where an average bag at the time might cost a hundred thousand yen which would be a thousand dollars from a european luxury brand while a coach bag might cause forty thousand yen in japan that for that sixty thousand yen savings a consumer could go to taiwan or korea for weekend air fair hotel and expenses or could save that six hundred dollars for rent towards an apartment and we ins ourselves effectively by as an alternative by getting prime real estate this is when we opened stores so back to nineteen eighty eight with mit i shared with the founder of the the notion that there was society shifts through analytics and research showed that the appeal for japan american made coach products by our experience with japanese tourists so we had a presentation and we needed to name the presentation and we coined it magic and a combination of magic and logic and the founder who at the time was probably seventy years old and had been in the position for a career person at mit for twenty five and thirty years loved the term magic and logic and the and the the logic comes from analytics consumer research rigorous application of metrics collaboration adaptability and the magic comes from imagination and belief so when we talk about i had a belief that we could be successful with the japanese consumer i really felt strongly and it was driven by things that i was familiar with which is analytics and trying to measure cons where consumers were had been where they were today and where they were traveling and my entire philosophy from the beginning was to meet consumers where they were going not where they were today or where they were yesterday and so taking looking at its new consumers who fuel businesses you need satisfied consumers to buy again and again and we had lots of satisfied consumers in japan if we were entering the market it would be all new consumers and with that phrase he never went into the presentation and for ten or fifteen years afterwards whenever he would see me in japanese he would call me mister the magic and logic so we would have dinners you're mister the magic and logic he and he embraced us and it was a very successful partnership which evolved over a twenty year period and subsequent to that very successful meeting i started to use the term magic and logic a coach and this logic in magic and this magic in logic and i we help build a learning culture that really focused on collaboration and looking out for the greater good so when we talk about a greater good mindset that's logic you need to the magic is having belief and possibilities imagination curiosity is immersive curiosity is what i call i call that magic as well instinct following you've gut is magic but you can't follow you can't just use one of them it's always a blend of magic and logic it's some and certain companies and brands and products it's more magic others it's more logic i'm now talking about companies that produce physical products that have emotional connections to consumers because all of brand is is a is a lasting sum of images and associations that people have when they see the brand or the product does the set of images and associations and if those associations are positive and and in the case of coach it was very positive bags are are a very not intimate an object for women because they opened at sixty and seventy times a day they touch and feel it they kick out their most important possessions less so today in the digital age than before because you can almost do everything on an iphone but the iphone needs a vessel to put it in your keys on grooming products and they alike and in in the case of coach we used a natural leather with which we still do which develops at pat tina over time it burn so it gets better over time and today in the marketplace the collectible are selling for more than many of the older bags are selling for at prices well more than the new styles being introduced today because they're coveted the hubspot podcast network is a success story partner now a quick podcast recommendation i've been listening to truth lies and work they're in the hubspot podcast network just like success story it's this husband and wife team a and lia elliott they break down why people actually do what they do at work so 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code success story hubspot is a success story partner now the future of business is happening right now and you don't wanna miss it that's why you have to be at inbound twenty twenty five they are bringing together the brightest minds in marketing sales business entrepreneurship ai for three incredible days in san francisco the global epicenter of innovation and technological disruption picture this you are learning directly from amy poe about creative leadership you're getting ai insights from da modi who's literally shaping the future of artificial intelligence here's what makes inbound special it's not just the great keynote you're gonna dive into breakout sessions where you can immediately implement what you learn and plus san francisco legendary startup ecosystem provides the perfect backdrop for networking with all these great entrepreneurs decision makers industry leaders peers who are actively shaping the future of business from september third to fifth at the mo center you're gonna be surrounded by forward thinking professionals who turn insights and ideas into breakthroughs don't just watch the future unfold be part of creating it visit inbound dot com slash register to get your ticket today well i wanted to sort of get your perspective on on leaders who lean more towards magic or more towards logic because now you now you mentor a whole bunch of of entrepreneurs and leaders and i guess this is again a two part question first of all do you see people leaning towards on average leaning towards one or the other more often than not end like is that a detriment you know one more than often than not and also for somebody who's listening to this who is a very say logic or magic driven person visionary or somebody in the in the data and they want to have more of a balance is there a way for somebody to become more balanced or is that something that you have to hire for to compliment your sort of native disposition or or native pro to one versus the other it's a it's also a an interesting question and and not surprisingly it varies by whether it's a service that you're introducing or a physical product whether it's a a disposable product where you just buy it every few days versus a discretionary per purchase which is something that you would keep for a longer time that has a lasting value so it all depends one of my jobs in mentoring and leaders or in determining whether we're going to invest in in a particular early stage requirement is to understand the superpower of that particular person and not only the superpower but their their very nature and whether they're collaborative coach strong ethics looking out for others rather than than themselves and clearly when we talk about entrepreneurs for the most part that they have the idea and many of them don't have the the training or the disciplines to turn it a great idea into a successful business and we what we try to do is complement that founder with others who have complementary skills and health to founder respect value of those skills so financial disciplines are absolutely critical to every start up in every business and to the extent that the founder has a big idea and it's a visionary but isn't really focused on profitability or or developing comprehensive strategic plans to sequence things you need to look to find people to compliment them and and vice versa just to summarize and wrap up the story with coach talk to me about how that period of your life ended and obviously what you've transitioned into now and some of the things that you took from those years that coach and i guess your entire career and what what you've you know that was a season of your life now you're in a new season of your life what you're focused on now and sort of what that period of your life led you to do when i was working a coach i was looking to build a brand that would withstand the test of time recognizing that most brands do not and and trying to understand what are the underlying equities within a brand that lead to be nurtured and developed so that even if the company goes through a tough run or bad management it can be revitalize again i i i really do believe coach is a legacy brand because it has endured for multiple generations and today under the leadership of todd kahn and stuart vi it is undergoing a remarkable renaissance reaching all time highs as it focuses on gen z continuing to look at societal shifts and and have it really responded to what gen z is looking for and they actually created a term called accessible as called i'm sorry they created a term called expressive luxury we had created a term accessible luxury prior to go in public as a mon for investors in particular to understand where we were playing between mass and luxury there was a lot of white space it was and you know we had a single lane over the over the following fifteen twenty years it turned into a super high accessible luxury because that is what americans gravitate towards because we don't have a history of luxury so bringing it to to other brands and businesses when i look at a when we look at a a discretionary brand that is entering a a new space we look at the unmet need the what lead perceived or existing they're going to fulfill or even if it's not unknown need so in a beverage category as an example more than a dozen years ago we got involved in a concept that was in the sports drink category called body which was developed as an alternative to gatorade and power aid that industry was about five billion dollars in the united states and not growing the both companies had drinks with unhealthy ingredients artificial sweetness and the alike and the visionary founder created a sport sports drink with a great taste with natural ingredients ten percent coconut water and and it was clear to me with shifting norms towards healthy eating and drinking if we were able to market it correctly and reached the hearts and minds of target consumers it could be successful and the category started to grow as a result of body the armor and ultimately the business was sold to coca cola when we had i believe one point five billion dollars in sales about ten or twelve years later and that's an example of a visionary with a great idea reinforced by what i would call a second founder who built a world class team of seasoned people to really build this business or to it's ultimate worse the last thing that i wanted to go into because you know you've had credit you've had an incredible career obviously you still provide tons of value from a a strategic standpoint and a tactical standpoint for the founders that you work with and the companies you invest in but a lot of what you speak about in your book are some of the not so fun parts and we sort of touch on them at the beginning but you speak about fear and depression and anxiety and i'm sure things that every single founder you've worked with in every single founder and even non founder that's planning on doing something is dealing with right now why did you why did you think it was important to put this stuff out there actually i'll say that differently because it's important to put this stuff out there but what was the thing that made you comfortable speaking about this publicly because i think that's less common first i started to clearly i talked openly with my family who witnessed my highs as well as experienced my lows and i found over time i was increasingly comfortable sharing that with individuals who i was coaching mentoring or even in select cases people on my team and when i decided to write my story which i mentioned was motivated by my adult children i wanted to tell an an authentic story a real story and that's what they wanted me to tell too and the reality for me is that is always driven by a drive for excellence and a fear of failure if you only fear failure it doesn't work if you only a driving for excellence and not scared that you might fail that can lead to complacency and eu and so i was always driven and continue to be through today by a fear of failure but it's motivated by a drive for excellence when someone's afraid they can do two three things you can do when you're afraid you can flee you can freeze or you can fight and you need to be driven by positive things to fight otherwise you can freeze and many of us freeze or you can flee and avoid the tough stuff until it explodes because you cannot but that's also a port portion of you can freeze or flee you wanna fight and to fight you need to have belief so the positive side is when you drive for excellence you have to believe in what you're doing and you need to lead consistently you need to motivate people and there has to be a genuine because people people employees customers everyone is smart they will know when someone's faking it so i i i also say say to people you need to listen to your body because your body doesn't lie to you and again if you're if if you're feeling like maybe you're an imp you because you're alone in the big office and the you got the world on your shoulders and being a ceo it's often very lonely i would say leave your office con confined in your senior team and work together i also suggest that you get help and that and there's a lot of self administered that helped exercise is so important to get your adrenaline endo meditation therapy massage punch and so on all of these things are really very helpful and i also believe you need to create if you want people to perform at their best you need to create a culture that allows people to be authentic and honest and where they can explore their issues and you could be helpful to them either just do coaching therapy medical support leads of absences you feel like having a a little bit of fear although it can be destructive if it's too much but a little bit of fear is actually required for success for fifth for sustained long term success yes and i i underscore sustained long term success and and often oftentimes people who don't have the fear but i might say get complacent or feel the eu verse that they're in a moat that no one can get into are frequently shocked and then they have to catch do double time to transform their business to catch up with the new competitors of the changing trends is there is there a specific tactic that you've used over your life that turns sort of fear into some productive action versus just paralysis like i mean i know their stories is about when you were pre ipo when you were stressed out and you had nightmares how do you work through that ten because it's not really easy and one the most important thing for everyone to know is that you're not alone every family is affected at some level at some time by issues by mental health issues whether it's a loss of mojo whether it's depressive episodes whether it's uncertainty about life and that is the human condition and i think with the ascend of gen z in the digital age as you said earlier it's much more open people are much more open to therapy are open to becoming better versions of themselves and wanting to lead a better life what i try to do i'm focused entirely on purpose and relationships at this point and feel having authentic real relationships is critical as is purpose doing something that i believe in and when you have belief in something and you're able whether it's a coach on a team or running a business it is not only renewing it's and judging and very fulfilling so i encourage people who are going through periods of tough periods to stay active to get help develop routines that will we require them to get out from who they are you cannot dwell and medicine often helps so if you could go back and tell a word of wisdom to your twenty year old self that would be comforting that would help them on their career journey what do you think that would be be open to possibilities maintain a feeling that things are possible optimism is is a critical factor and be willing to try new things they're not for life because you can often find your best destiny after for after having another experience that leads you to understand that's not where you want to go be open be positive be willing to do anything that's required and in in your job also look for it to the extent that you have discretion meaning you have the means not to necessarily or in a a paycheck next week or you have multiple opportunities look for an affirmative culture where your values are consistent with the values of the company and how they actually practice if you have the opportunity look for a learning environment where you can find mentors either individuals or because it's a learning environment classes and courses that you're encouraged to take to help you develop skill sets and a level of consciousness that you might not have today i love i like that a lot a good answer a good answer your book so bag man the story behind me improbable rise of coach that's coming out october fourteenth and you can get that obviously anywhere you get books i would say if somebody picks up this book what would be and they could only take one lesson away from it the most important lesson what would you hope that they take away from this life is a journey be open to possibilities challenge itself to become a better version of yourself have humility be able to listen to others be able to grow from experiences be less judgmental understand that the world has a lot of gray in it and i think that the last thing that i i i like to ask and you know even even before we press record i'm sure you'll have a very good answer for this because you're speaking to me about your family or asking me five kids yet and how important it is to you know that's that's the legacy that's really what we we all do this for so after all the things that you've learned over your life over your career if you could only pass on one lesson to your your kids or i guess even your grandkids you can pick one or the other maybe it's the same same lesson for both what would be the most important thing it doesn't have to be about business it could be but what's the most important life lesson that you would want your kids to take away live a life that's authentic and real with good values understand that we're part of a global society and our place in it and it's all about the journey be prepared work hard but look for special moments and and be sure that you're there your family along the way claude is a success story partner now as podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under prepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles that nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources about my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for claude today and get fifty percent off quad pro when you use my link claude dot ai slash success sports injuries test you your mind your body and spirit others transform you elevating you to a stronger bolder version of yourself at summit at orthopedic our experts are prepared for both for every challenge for every comeback because you deserve nothing less than the best live life at your 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influence with in ent the place that i start is like looking what's your self concept who do you think you are and i believe the natalie chart is a great place to start on unraveling changing the narrative so that way you are understanding who you are and enlighten the potential all entrepreneurs all the people that i have admire they don't have easy charts they have very difficult charts and that difficulty in their charts is the same muscle that pushes them through everything her work blends bold storytelling community building an action shifting culture while building impact she's not just advising others she's living what she teaches aligned courageous and purpose driven i think faith is healthy when it questioned itself question even what i'm saying how did you experience it you need to have a alive you need to make their own choices i focus more on big trends that we're gonna see and unraveling through time for people to study develop and get a sense of it mia you've built one of the largest astrology platforms in the world by teaching something that most astro won't they can completely rewrite what their chart says about them explain to me why that is so novel and so not common in the world of astrology first of all i think everybody looks for like faith or a source or in this case astrology to know what's gonna happen to them like i need something to tell me that this is not gonna last forever this break up the the loss of a job or the loss of a person and i just need something to give me external certainty i practice cabal astrology and the whole foundation is the certainty within you so i'm not gonna teach you or not i'm not gonna tell you like be dependent to me or to the astrology or be dependent to an answer outside yourself let's create the answers i believe like we can all create like this refugee inside of us that place to go but that place to go has to be like a stable rock like even in the storm if you wanna see it that way and that's gonna happen when you understand how you're thinking when you're listen to the things that you say it to yourself and the place that i start is like looking what's your like self concept who do you think you are and from that i start creating with my clients and students like the pillars of this person you wanna be and i do believe that if you have the desire of the this way or that way you have the potential to do it why you and i don't have the same desires like i don't wanna be the president of united states do you no i don't either so maybe that's the same but yeah a lot of other people for example maybe you wanna be this great podcast that's not one of my desires i have other other desires and i do believe that that seed of the desire if it's within you is because you have something there a light that can be sparked to develop it so i do start in okay who do you think you are what what do you know so far and i believe the na chart is a great place to start to start unraveling but changing the narrative so that way you are creating these new neuro pathways understanding who you are and enlighten the potential of what it is but it's all based on because qa astrology tells you that each position in your nile chart is not like a degree of destiny is okay we have this here how do we wanna develop it it gives you at least this idea of freedom to say i can pause and choose if i wanna move it this way or move it the other way and i believe in the power of taking this seat inside of you for you to think i have a choice i always have a choice to be reactive or to respond to this so i think that's the difference so i love this and the reason why i love this so much is because my biggest i don't wanna say issue i don't know much about as astrology but i would say my biggest issue with sort of following anything that seems to place the responsibility outside of yourself it could be a religion it could be a spiritual practice it could be a astrology it could be anything that says i'm not responsible for my own life because this is what the universe said should happen to me i find that to be a very defeat attitude i find it to be very depressing i find it to almost be this self fulfilling prophecy where you're like well if it's not meant for me i'm gonna give up and the reason why i don't like that idea is because i've found in my life the exact opposite of that if i put enough energy and effort and like life force towards something i find that the world starts to change and bend to my will and i think that that's one of the strongest ideas and i don't think that it's easy and it's not just my idea a lot of big entrepreneurs believe this if they put enough energy towards something the world will let them eventually figure it out and i just wish more people wouldn't quit before they start just because they believe that they're not supposed to do it if that makes sense and i love the version of what you're talking about because you're saying understand who you are through astrology through charts through all these different in all these different things that we can read and understand and then use that to set up your life and carve your life and and use that as like a guide but not as like a sentence exactly the thing is when i that i was born into astrology in the sense that this was the language of my household thank god my grandmother who raised me never used it as a yeah it's like a sentence you know but then when i started going into astrology myself like me and myself alone and started like understanding what was behind the like the mathematical side and everything first i i was coming out from this this very important person who was a an australia authority in my hometown told me you will never anything because you have this and that in your chart and then i like holding on to astrology to find a different answer developing like my astrology sense reading books starting by myself i like figure it out this formula it was very young i was like maybe sixteen or fifteen and i'm like what if astrology like an umbrella to work other things and still to this day i've been doing this professionally for eighteen years now the way that i that i feel like i attract people is through astrology but if you're looking for a horoscope that tells you this is gonna happen to you and you're gonna have to move a finger maybe you're gonna be like okay me is not for me because in every like if if if it's a tweet if it's a video if it's like a mean whatever it is it's like okay i'm bringing you here but let's let's look like further and let's let's work inside of us so i'm not this person who's gonna tell you what's gonna happen and you don't have to do anything or the other thing i don't do is fear a lot of astro use fear mostly in the recent times like as hook cups or as way to get a lot of clicks on youtube like these headlines and i believe that people don't learn through fear you're not gonna open yourself to learn and grow just by fear fear indeed is effective but i do leave like the most effective thing you can do long term is working on yourself like we're live in yourself like you said when you believe something is gonna happen and you put you pour all your energy into it i believe the world bends to you because you start looking for ways that if you just say to yourself this is not gonna happen you close your eyes to it if you think it's gonna happen you're gonna see windows where you used to see walls you're gonna make it happen and i do believe in that all entrepreneurs all the people that i admire they don't have easy charts they have very difficult charts and that difficulty in their charts is the same muscle that pushes them through everything i've seen very easy charts and very comfortable people so i do lead that little challenge that the lil fire is what makes the world bend to you and so much so if you go back to like when you were a child growing up and you mentioned before that there was this one astro said you would never mount to anything yeah obviously that didn't that didn't turn out like you've obviously did you take that and say i need to prove this wrong i need to do something that's going to prove this this astro wrong this is like was this almost like motivation you know there's a lot of questions people ask me and i was so young that i can see it one way right now yeah but i'm in my forties very different when for when i was a teenager but this is the thing i was warning a very like different conditions from everyone around me my mother had me very young i was raised by my grandparents and when i turn like fourteen fifteen i had this burning question that didn't let me sleep because my mother had me very young and we didn't live together she came to united states to finish high school i stayed in venezuela and i remember every time that i called my mom i was like what do you help me like what made you make the choice of having me you were super young and this burning question i was like why did i came here like other people in this circumstances stand circumstances would have chosen something else to handle differently and i was like i didn't say in my mind like i came for something but i was like what am i doing here and nobody could answer that question for me i ask her and she's like yeah i don't know things happened that way this and that and i'm like no there has to be something reference your your mother was fourteen when she had you it's not like she was like eighteen nineteen twenty no idea exactly but i'm making this question when she was like maybe thirty already thirty but she still didn't have like that answer for me so i go to see this astro and he's like i don't know you should have come to the world your son is next to the south node well don't expect too much from life and mind you i was saving to have this this consultation i was saving like my my weekly money like and this this was like my gift i was graduating from high school at fifteen and this was my gift to myself before choosing what career i was gonna doing like in college it i was like do philosophy i do law school i'm gonna see this guy and then i'm gonna make my choice and the whole hour of consultation was like one depressing thing after another and i remember coming back to my apartment with this little cassette where everything was recorded and like this this folder and i'm like i'm never gonna open this again this it it can't like this this can't be it it there has to be something else i don't know if in that moment i was like i'm gonna prove the world wrong because in in the rest of my life i've never been a person of always trying to prove people wrong no like i don't i don't feel like that's one of my mean pillars of character but i do think it was more like a survival thing that no no no i'm already here like let's see what happens but i never had an idea how in which manner sense i started law school and i loved it i work as a lawyer for two three years i never thought to myself i'm gonna make a difference in the world but i do i've always known i'm a very sensitive person and that i feel things very deeply but you know what things happen the way they happened when i moved to miami and circumstances pushed me to look in astrology again and then i was like i don't know i was just following something that made me feel good i've heard this very long time ago by monica berg in the ka center she said the way you know you're connecting to your purpose is because this is lighting you up it doesn't have to be your work but you feel more light up you feel like you wanna give you feel like there's more of you that you wanna expand and also sometimes you're gonna do things that just contract you of course sometimes because of trauma sometimes because of fear but there's some things that they just close your heart and when i came to miami and i started going to the center and i started to understand potential instead of like destiny your sentence i was like there's something here and i started tweeting and i'm like i just wanna see if this can help someone that it feels like me like there's like a closed road in my perspective i was trying to look for something that said okay this is not gonna be the same for the rest of your life things are gonna evolve things are gonna change and there was like a push inside of me and i felt like more energy less fear and pushing and pushing and pushing and it keeps happening you know like last year even though i've been doing this for a long time at the end of twenty twenty four there was like a very hard situation that i was going through and it sparked the same like fire and when twenty twenty fifth five started i was like i'm gonna do everything that i haven't done because of fear and here i am talking to you about cousin english because what i'm saying is like it's not like oh i knew what i was gonna do and i felt this fire and it's been a blast for eighteen years like sometimes i feel that fear again or i feel that shell again and something things spark something i'm like okay i'm breaking through but it's not to prove people wrong it's because i feel there's something like is like expanding me like you feel you follow energy yeah i follow energy yeah i love it exactly you put turn words no it's very popular no just because as you're saying it like it resonates a lot with me i don't always know why i'm doing what i'm doing but yeah but you just kind of follow what feels good and feels right and gives you energy and doesn't take energy away and i think my whole career not just with career with people too yeah some people give me energy some people don't and for some reason whatever whatever mission that i've been put on this earth to do like even when i'm tired and i'm stressed out like when i do this it's like every this up disappears yeah and i never felt anything else like that and i've done like a lot of different jobs and been successful a lot different things too exactly like that i'm curious how you turn something that gave you energy and lit you up and you were passionate about how do you turn that into an actual job because that's something that a lot of people wish they could do but they don't do successfully okay every business is different and in my case when i started doing this like professionally i was just recently moved to united states and i did have a nine to five actually a nine to five a six to ten a lot i'm i've been very fortunate to have people in my life that have coached me without being coaches i was reading a friends post two today ago that said one of the things that looking people is that they're coach because when you meet someone that is not coach the things that know at all yeah like there's nothing going on there and i was like i'm i'm coach i i open myself to listen to people that know from things that i don't know and even if you say something that ross me the wrong way i'm open to like hearing you and asking myself like what is it that i don't like like i understand that bayer like i is something in me so starting this i had this friend she used to live me in venezuela and she was working for this company who manages personal branding and this is two thousand and nine so i had no idea what a personal brand was or like in those times you didn't talk about content like we didn't say creating content i remember the world the word influencer came in like two thousand thirteen but in that in that moment i had no idea and she's like you have this blog in blog spot this is very good you already use twitter open your twitter and don't keep it privately private start tweeting and start posting whatever you're doing in your blog spot and i'm not thinking about money at all so what happened to me was that tweeting i got like leads for people that wanted for me to do the horoscope for the newspaper this and that and the thing that changed like let's spark this money thing in me was that i found out that one of the people that was publishing my horoscope was charging for ads in the horoscope page because it had a lot of clicks i had no malice like not nothing in me was like like money driven i don't know like i didn't have it in me but when i saw that i was like wait a minute wait making money off of me they're making money off of me and that is not right and also i'm working two jobs so wait and she's like no like let's do this let's create a membership and i'm like how like nobody's is gonna pay for this and she's like you'll see i started looking for pages with like paid content and i think maybe the new york times it was one newspaper that was starting to charge for some like some articles not all and then like this is not gonna happen this is not gonna fly all my people all the people are following me following me on facebook or twitter in latin america i'm charging in dollars like this not gonna happen i remember that we did this we launched the membership in two thousand eleven so it was like some years of me working for free in this moment i'm making the decision because i got fired of getting people on consultations so i'm attending people back to back i was charging like maybe one fifty per consultation one hour of reading tornado chart transit this and that at the same time starting like to have like a very good perspective attending people i was very scared of attending people in the beginning of not being professional enough so i was like really putting myself like the time and effort to be professional i didn't have any role model it was like a little impostor syndrome yeah because like tried to travel back to two thousand eleven while in the world of astrology there was not this role model for me to say okay here or she is doing it this way i can do it this way so i had to just like fake a creating those new new pathways ways to say okay this is happening i'm gonna relieve myself that i'm this person so i'm attending people i'm earning a lot like a little bit of money we launched the membership and then the membership is like either monthly or every six months and i'm like okay this is a recurrent charge i can like start making a plan my first plan was not to buy i don't know purse or anything i was like i need a graphic designer i need a graphic designer and need somebody to help me i refused to start instagram because i was like how am i gonna translate astrology into pictures like i didn't know how to talk about like an alignment or a transit like am i gonna take a picture of the of the chart of the planet that what am i'm gonna do and then i started thinking maybe i can compose this and this is like venus in scorpio this outfit or this and that so i was like okay when i open instagram the world really open because everybody was like going into that social media platform and then i was like just promoting my my my membership my business if you wanted a horoscope you had to go in and receive it every every sunday and my membership also included class every day like monday every day you would get forty minute or fifty minute class to learn how to read your chart and that was a hit like i don't know how i still don't understand how it happened but it happened and then i organize myself like financially a little bit but my first impulse was i need a team i need people i can't do this all on my own well i think i mean you say you don't know how it happened i think it happened by you starting which is a big blocker for a lot of people regardless in terms of business or content or otherwise just starting but then also just working a lot like i think you just it sounds like you just worked a lot like i worked the lot and also you know what it's not magic it's a lot of hard works there's a lot of people that this is like very early there's a huge difference because i think early adopters we had a lot of opportunities in that moment when i see myself i look back two thousand twelve to two thousand thirteen like for example tv programs magazines were catching this drill that the content was gonna come from those people in social media so a lot of people were just like knocking on the door on do this for me come to this tv show come to that so i had so many opportunities that i also feel as humans when we see that something is getting recognition is getting you a plus you get very motivated yes so if i started astrology now now there's a lot of people creating astrology and social media you know what i of course so i think early adopters we do have this advantage that everybody was looking for us in the beginning and if you kept doing it you have an authority in the in the area because you been doing it for twelve years fifteen years but how do you how do you yes i agree but how do you keep reinventing yourself so that you keep staying relevant and you like what's the strategy because i do agree early adopters have this advantage but you still need to find a way to like keep the excitement in your audience or with your customers so this is the thing astrology wise every day something is happening like the planets are moving so regarding content for example let's say i was a fashion influencer i would be attached to trends to fall spring i don't know i'm not a fashion influencer but you have to keep looking what's going on with the brands i guess but as an astro every day something's happened so i don't have to think like what i gonna talk about like i know what transit is gonna happen in december and i'm already talking about it like i don't even have to talk about myself every day there's something going on how do i create like the attractiveness i think is the way of expressing myself i think i can transmit passion because i really love what i do and the other thing that happens is as humans with people something happens something changes i started doing this when i was like twenty three and i was a single girl in miami okay so from twenty three to thirty something i went through dates i went through a lot of breakouts i went through like the sixth in the city time and i never exposed my private life but i had a like a book deal i had to write i i think it was five six books and through book deal yeah it's a good book deal and two of those books were about relationships and that because i'm not a person to say like in this story my boyfriend left but i explained the whole story in the books with a little bit of astrology like for example he was a scorpion and this happened so i think that was a great pivot because the books were literally like sex in the city i had characters there were my friends people saw them in social media so this is glowing this is that so that was a pivot then i went in a book tour i came back to miami after like touring for like three four months i go to a yoga class for the first time in my life and i don't know i i got not at depression but i got like oh my god like my life is changing and then i was like i'm gonna pursue yoga and i'm gonna get i i'm gonna get myself certified and then i took my my followers to like get certified in yoga and and like i've been taking these people and all the people that like but it's not a lie like this is me looking for answers saying okay i did this nutrition course and last year i did this hormone workshop and this is happening and this is peri men menopause and this looks like the like the moon transit like the same way as our cycles i find ways to see everything in life and like how ways related to astrology so i think as women or as people that like astrology is interesting in seeing real life experiences with that parallel but i think that's a reinvent invention i haven't like looked for it i'm just like living life so i have a couple of thoughts i love first of all i think that's very wise i hope i i'm gonna explain what people really have to understand from what you did i don't know if you did it purposefully i think you you understand why it's so good with your content but first idea is this is like why taylor swift music is always better when she breaks up because oh yeah no experience my classes were amazing in each breakup because like let me tell you i know i love tell you what are the transit of a mama's boy like you know like that's the thing but that's a so this is what i think a lot of content creators and i say content creator you run a business but you're a content creator but a content creator is a business at the end of the day and if you don't have good content it's gonna fall flat people aren't gonna follow you but to be a good content creator you have to live a life but you have to live it's to go do shit yeah to go out you have to go travel explore like make mistakes yeah well because get up again that is what again hate the word everyone hates the word authenticity but that's what it is it's just bringing your life into your content to give you an example of how that it like impacts me like even with the podcast when i first started this podcast now just over six years ago i didn't bring any of my life into the podcast i was scared shit i didn't wanna talk about what's going on in my life with my relationship with work anything now i bring everything into the podcast and it does that much better because now people feel like they know me so they still get podcasts they still get the content but they they understand that oh i just spent two months in dubai because i'm trying to figure out a real estate transaction and that was a shit show and i was talking to somebody that's big into real estate and that drives the conversation but it's it's just you bring your life into your content and then people feel like you're not just this talking head is talking at them that you're like living vic through you and then you tie it back to what you do for a living which is astrology and then all of a sudden it's now relevant to your main content and now it's relevant to your business i think that's one of the smartest things that anybody's ever said on this show about how to create good content yeah go live a life yeah but i have to say some things about this i'm me like you like i don't bring my day today to my stories like i don't try to create engagement about what's happening in my day to today i opened myself about my breakups in a book because i felt like it was like a book like it's a book you know what i mean it happened and you needed good space and then you brought it in but this is the thing or another thing for example twenty twenty five was a year as speaking of huge change and i i i i don't like when i follow someone that is talking about something and is not following through like i'm talking about change and everybody that follows me knows that this year i've been making huge changes i'm not gonna just talk about it i'm gonna leave about it but another thing that i think is important but this is in the world of astrology astrology has always been tied to spirituality for a lot of people's spirituality is i don't need meat i don't make these mistakes if i know astrology i know what's gonna happen to me and i'm like i i feel like i'm a very spiritual person but i'm still like i make mistakes i'm impulsive i follow the energy i follow like the they love of the heart i don't i don't post myself as this spiritual elevated person and it's not gonna make mistakes because that's a lie you know i've been trying really hard to separate astrology from spirituality not because it's not tied up but because in my world in my business world if you're an astro if you do taro rake or something like that you you shouldn't charge but that's the thing i'm a very ambitious person i'm not gonna deny that in the sense that i do see all the time that i invest creating content not for social media but for my membership i work every day four to five hours just recording all the time for classes i take like workshops and courses not only astrology other things too so i do see all my effort i do see all the people that i have in my company my as astra is a big company we have people in mexico in colombia in spain in united states we used to have something in in like in netherlands like we are a big big team so i do create content and create a business to provide to all these people you know what i mean and people from outside don't see that they think that oh if it's astrology and it's spiritual you shouldn't charge and i'm like why do people say that so i don't agree with that no i don't agree with that either and i do believe that even though i'm taking all the shit for it in the sense that before me i never saw someone like saying una this is my workshop this is the value my time is valuable i'm working on myself i'm trying to get like more degrees or more like you know everything that you have to do for it and i do believe there's a value on the perspective that you have built it you know so i hope it opens the doors for other people working this type of content saying yeah if i work for your newspaper or your magazine this is like this is how much i chart for this piece because but people don't know about astrology that you study every every day there's always something happening and you have to sharpen your vision because if not for example this is the thing do you see the world as you are not as the world is so i've seen astro say oh this is a a pluto chances this is gonna be awful for you like what this guy did to me if you don't open your mind and get out of yourself you're gonna make content and horoscope for twelve signs from your little bubble from your life so for example one thing i do a lot i go into forums in another astrology sites why because i need to see another astrology perspective a astrology perspective i need to see how they frame world events i need to study the history of some transit if not it you said go out and live because if not it's just a little bubble and that takes time that takes effort that is valuable and another thing that i understood this year and it was like because i wanted to create method and i met people like you or like gary is like you have something very valuable is that you've been creating content for eighteen years so you can teach people about content and i'm like you see it like yeah but since people frame you in like if you're good at this and it's easy for you should be free it's like i know so i do have experience in this and i do have experience in that and i hope everybody that's doing something out of passion can see that there are a lot of accomplishments in all of that journey for sure one last thought on on how you've built up this incredible business because i think this is also a useful lesson for people that are they have passion mh and they're building something that they're passionate about but say they didn't take the leap they're doing it in my opinion smartly so they're still working their nine to five how do you know when you take that hobby and you turn it into something full time like you turn it into your life and your career my life is not a really good example because i had a nine to five and then an an eight to three am and my boss from my nine to five fired me because he told me like your life is not here like you really love astrology like you do your own thing i'm gonna let you go with a two months paid but you know this is i'm so grateful for that but the way that i see a lot of people have done the jump is that they know they they wanna jump and they start like saving what they call a fuck fund have you heard about it yes i have yeah that you have to have like at least six to nine months in all the expenses that you need and then you make the jump so i'm not a very good example because it was different times i like other situation but if i if i had to do it now i would have my job and i would start working on my thing regardless like a little little by little giving attention to both start looking for business opportunities in this thing that is my passion you know in in savannah say that the thing you would love the most your passion shouldn't be your main source of income because it's so pure that nothing should tainted it in a way so i do believe like try to keep your passion is sparking get from that energy to the things you have to do to keep life moving but start saving like no what you need to spend to spend and what you don't need to spend save enough to have that moment when you feel like it's time to do the jump i wouldn't do the jump if i didn't have like a a like a source of income something that is moving like maybe a business model and or an idea i would do that too like when i started i didn't know what a business model was i didn't know like about tax like about anything i had to learn on the go if i would start again i would learn how to handle money first in my personal life like me what's my relationship with money what's my relationship with growth what my what's my relationship with necessary sacrifices and then i will do that like feeling like i have an idea of what i'm doing hubspot is a success story partner now think about listening to this podcast right now you're probably multitasking you're probably catching seventy to eighty percent of what we're talking about but let's flip that and imagine you're only catching twenty percent that'd be crazy right it's really not a good use of your time if you only remember twenty percent of what we're talking about but most businesses most entrepreneurs are only using twenty percent of their data all the most important details in call logs emails chat with their customers it's just left floating in digital space not being used hubspot it gives you the access to those insights to help you grow your business because when you know more you grow more visit at hubspot dot com to get the full picture of your business today nets sweet is a success story partner now what is a future hold for 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wait any longer speed up your hiring right now with indeed and listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility just go to indeed dot com slash cla right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com so slash clarity terms and conditions apply if you're hiring indeed is all you need was there ever a moment as you're growing this business and by the way that's a great boss to have that understands that you should be doing something different with your life was there ever a moment were you second guest your so i'm sure that let me rephrase when you're building a business there's always moments where you second guess and end out but was there ever a moment where you just really wondered like what the hell am i doing going on this journey or was this something that you always felt like this was meant for you ever since i started i've always felt this is something i wanna do even if i didn't earn money i i would still do astrology for sure for sure but i've had my doubts not not creating content not doing astrology like in two thousand twenty two was a very hard year for me because i didn't know how to be a boss like how to lead a team how to manage my maybe fire and imp like handling teams creating groups hearing like what they needed to say like for me was very hard my best friend works with me she's here and she comes from corporate and it's not that she brought corporate to me as trial but she's she brought some practices that are like healthy practices in a company and for me like understanding for me that was like going through like flow and stream to like like a quad g cooler like a box yeah like a box but some boxes aren't needed it you know you know what i mean yeah like you you're not gonna cheat the system and not pay like you have to do everything oh forget forget even that i mean like terms of give you i'll give you an example what happens to me like sometimes when i'm like with my scrappy little podcast like i've worked in corporate before i've i've never worked you get very comfortable like i run my whole team on whatsapp yeah that's not corporate that's not corporate right corporate but you know you you laugh but no we no but it's true and i've talked about this with other business owners like we got slack and for me was like hey can you send me this and then it's like no hi good more like it does you laugh i'm laughing because you're the same you laugh but all those little things matter like getting the time to talk of one like for example taking the time to tell one of the people in your team this idea this idea you brought amazing and it did super well and the work you're doing you think that doesn't matter but you really do need to learn how to lead because the success of your your work it also relies on the success on the team and how they feel and the connection that is going in the like in in the everyday life you don't you forget because you're creating content and you have like growing the business and doing investment but you're part of their everyday life and maybe you don't know it but they look up to you and they're looking up to what like your lead to do this and that sometimes not only in business sometimes also in life and you have i know it's like another space in your mind that you're like okay i have to take this into account too but you really have to pour yourself into being in a leader knowing how to be a boss owning your mistakes and saying it and also invest in their development yeah like workshop this let's bring somebody let's do this meditation together because we do i thank god i have some like the girl in human resources she's amazing and she also is always like taking care of these things so yeah it's been like a journey to learn those things too yes but i mean when you like again if there's something that you're you are so committed to doing i'm just gonna just say it one last time like when you when you take the first step you you do figure it out like you really do figure it out it it sounds like a lot but again like all the cliches are also very you don't compare someone someone else's is your ten to your you're one like take the first step lean ins surround yourself with good people it does work out but i do have second guess myself in that sense like in my i be up to be like an owner do i need somebody to like in those situations is when i get like either frustrated or feel like i'm not doing enough i should put like and i did the jump like i used to i i remembered four or five years ago that i felt like all my job was to do astrology but no it's also b a boss it's also looking for another business like there's more to it but you grow into it i think you grow into it i also think this is a really good point at a very important point so even if you're doing something that you're passionate about a lot of the work to make that passion of business is not things that you'll be passionate about but it's a part of it it's a part of it so a lot of the a lot of the hiring and the sales and the leadership and the marketing the hr the find it like that's not things that anybody's passionate it may be something not many people are passionate actual ours some people i'm not you would be surprised you think you feel like you're a people's person yeah yeah i am i think because some people are not like i i i mean i think that's why i enjoy doing this i believe become i'm a people's person but all those things like hi good more in these like all those little details they were not like first nature for me and now they've come to be first nature in everything and i do see the value in it like for whoever is listening to us and thinking that's like a lot of things you grow you have time and you grow into it little by little by little own your mistakes like have this even though like maybe like you you manage people in different cities or places yes they're over have this open door policy of you can come to me and ask me whatever you need to ask me like i don't believe in my business in this i'm here and you're here like we're all open to like exchange ideas brainstorming give me guidance i i never hire somebody who loves loves loves the brand because i never wanna be working with somebody that is just like i love a struggle you i love me i it's not that i well i do love i love when people criticize me in our in a right way like has healthy criticism because i know it's gonna help grow the the brand and create something better but that's also why the people that you surround yourself with to your point they can't just be fans right they have to be professionals yeah and they have to be good at what they do but they also have to be comfortable like speaking up and tell him he amazon the you create that space yeah with your attitude uk that space when they can say hey i think this can be a change or this or that and i think that's also healthy in in other relationships too but you have to become aware of what you don't see yourself sometimes i ask my friends and they they tell me like yeah sometimes you're scary and i'm like i don't see myself that way but you have to ask these things there's this practice before ro in that you know when you're like the month before russia the month of you ask the people closest to you to tell you things that you don't see about yourself and it's it's funny because you think you know yourself and then these people is like i i live with you every day and you do this and that and you're like oh but it's true it happens so you have to learn how to see yourself from outside it's very wise because even people that think they're self aware and they they think they know themselves who you are is actually not who you think you are who you are is how other people perceive you that that is your reality that that is reality excuse me it's not your reality but that is reality so it doesn't matter how good or bad or nicer or mean you think you are if people don't perceive you that way it doesn't make a difference i i didn't know that was a practice in in judaism not in judaism i mean i don't know it has roots like bad roots and judaism but it's same calendar and everything but anybody can practice koala and i do follow all the holidays and and everything and i do this practice with my husband i used to do it with my friends like also in the in that is like qa like day of love we used to do this exchange of rose quartz and dressed white and as for our desires for the next year like everything i used to do everything now i do these practices with my husband and but it it's really interesting because cab is always trying to teach you to find a way to get out of your your ego i guess like the way you see yourself in astrology is like we have this method like there's a sun and your rising sign and the sun is how you think you're perceive and the rising sign is the relationship you have with yourself and when you understand both you're like there's a huge gap between what i project and what i really am so it's like i i find like everything you're gonna find a way to understand these things it it's from from numero neurology astrology human design they're always gonna find a way to understand who do i think i am and what am i projecting all of these all of these ideas and practices they're all really leading to the same end result yes like you you choose your umbrella but try to choose something to to see yourself how did you how did you decide what you wanted to include in your teachings and how did you decide okay so for people who don't understand the different versions of astrology i know there's a few versions i i don't know the names of all of them but i know a few different versions but then there is like human design there is ka which i just know because there's is like roots in judaism for ka cabal i don't know anything about human design but i've heard people speak about it before so there's so many different umbrellas how did you choose what you wanted to include what you wanted to learn from how do you combine them are there some that are not so legitimate some that are more legitimate like how do you make that because there's so much and i think that is a whole other the whole other conversation but i think that it's a valid idea i think that as people and society moved away from traditional versions of religion and god and became somewhat more secular i think that a lot of these practices filled the void because i think for faith for faith right people always need faith and i actually think it's very healthy to have faith because if you don't have faith then i think you have a very hard time removing your ego because for a moment if you don't have faith in something bigger than yourself the biggest thing in your life is yourself and i think that's very dangerous i think that's not a good way to operate through life so for me i don't really have any you know care what someone else believes or doesn't believe in but i think that the worst thing they can believe in is their own ego being the most important thing yeah they got yes i think it's very very very toxic i also i there's an an idea also when you remove god from society people find gods in other things and it could be astrology that could be the thing that they look to which is fine but it gets very bad when the god turns into a vice like work or money or something else right where they think that they're only put on this earth to serve money and to serve work or to serve some other you know worse vice like alcohol drugs ga whatever it is there's a million different devices that can replace faith and spirituality but that being said if somebody is trying to understand what they should listen to what they shouldn't listen to maybe they don't have a traditional religious god in their life how do help them navigate because there's so much out there so help them navigate what they should listen to and what they should and you can use your own experience too like how did you navigate because you probably have full view of everything that is more new i don't because for example i mentioned human design yesterday i had a like a live class meeting with all my students and somebody asked about human design i'm very frontal in insane when i don't know about something and i don't know a lot i i don't know anything about human design they told me i'm manifesto or something but it has never caught my attention like i follow what really gets my attention i do believe like for me i don't know for other people i think faith is healthy when it question itself in the sense like when i give classes i'm like okay this is happening astro i'm gonna give you these questions question even what i'm saying how did you experience it for me i take what has worked putting the work in me not putting the certainty outside so for example ka makes a lot of questions i did psycho analysis for eight years as a therapy and there were a lot of questions like in psycho analysis there's there's not like oh this is what you have or this is what it was each session ended with a question like an open question that get me through thinking many things so i follow whatever allows me the time to think never put like the god like i am the god no yeah but the certainty and the work is within me not outside and for example in astrology a lot of people use astrology saying for example you're ill so this is how you are i don't believe that i believe that each each chart is unique and i also believe that you're gonna choose what to what to show from from that chart even when you don't know it you know what i mean so whatever labels you and puts you in a little box i i don't go with that i need to have have space to question myself to question things and i follow what i think it has worked for me how do i know it has worked for me it has helped me grow it has helped me help other people or it has given me a source of strength in very dark times but never ever putting as as i said the certainty outside i don't tell people what to do i place questions like i tell you how is the energy how it can manifest and then i place the question how are you feeling it what do you feel you wanna do with it that way it's more like a dialogue i never wanna place myself in the position of a guru or tell or or knowing how everything is because of it as i told you like i feel a lot of people has used astrology or other ways of like this philosophical thinking from a a place of superiority and i don't believe in that do you ever find that because astrology i guess is is is old it's it's old wisdom cabal is also very old wisdom what is more new age i think there's a lot of things i've been going on for a long time for example human design i have no idea how long has been but i feel like it's it's becoming trend in the past us maybe ten years that it could also be what i'm just thinking of like what new age spirituality means and it could also just be looking at something that's old like kamala yeah and then it becomes popular and people start to study it and then it seems like it's more new age even though it's been around for is very interesting because it's been like a wave i remember when mad madonna started talking about nineteen ninety eight maybe and then it went away then it came back then it went away and i've seen since twenty twenty four it came right like right back but right now look like i'm gonna mention thomas transit we have the north node in pis so we're having a eclipse in pis and every time this happens there's like a search in faith and in spirituality like people need something to hold on like he's having like a renaissance it could be a struggle it could be ka it could be anything but right now and you're gonna see it like if you for me social media is like it's telling me the vibe and the mood of people and i've seen with catholicism or with j like everything is coming stronger but i don't see it like oh it's christian or is judaism for me it's like okay his spirituality something is happening here with faith like people need something to hold on to and you know so this is what's so interesting so when you see astro logically this indicator you do see a play out in real life every time there's like a huge transit coming up for example right now we're having eclipse in vi and pis every time we're having eclipse in bergen and pis like this for example diego is a south note right now there's gonna be a search in self care every little detail all the steps you do to like for your morning routine like mind you the last time we had these eclipse was nineteen years ago this type of eclipse so there's no way for me to say oh nineteen years ago we had instagram and everybody was post in the routine but before this eclipse is started i gave a class in march twenty twenty four saying to my students okay these eclipse are gonna come up berg that is the sign of like the body and all routines we're gonna have eclipse there so you guys are gonna see a search in everything that has to do with routines and monet everything because last year i was already seeing people with the ordering we did like trying to get analytics for everything and i said this is gonna get stronger pis is the other sign we're gonna have eclipse everything's gonna be into spirituality or faith and this and that i say this before the transit starts and then i'm like okay what have we seen about this like did we see the search before this eclipse says we had it in ares and libra every time there's eclipse in ares and libra there's a lot of things with war and libra rules relationships and my example was let's see what happens to bum to match because libra gonna have eclipse and if we're gonna have eclipse in the sign of relationships and now everybody's trying to connect through like online let's see what happens i didn't know how i was gonna happen the eclipse has happened and something we saw like the tendencies in social media was gen c saying i don't wanna do hint or i don't wanna do that because i wanna meet people in real life so we start seeing the trends and then we see it in real life is no it's super interesting there's this astro richard he has this book called cosmos and psyche isn't it like the huge huge book all he did was talking about transit through history and manifestation that like has happened and he's like okay astrology is not a science it's a pseudo science but it's the science of observation that every time we have certain type of transit these are the manifestations so for example every thirty six years pluto and saturn get into a conjunction and every time that happens there's like the spanish flu on the eight in nineteen eighty two was eight like there's like a viral thing that in the beginning people don't understand and then voila so in nineteen eighty two was the first time like they were handling aids and then twenty twenty came and it was the coronavirus so p tata said i don't know what's gonna happen in twenty twenty but every time we're having this there's a virus so that's a thing astrology has a lot in observation of transit through history so every time a transit it's gonna come i explained my students what has happened before the store the history is not gonna represent itself exactly the same because we're we're in another times you know like war is not gonna be the same in nineteen forty two like it's not gonna be the same now we have so much technology so i present like the basis of the energy and we see it developing in time is like the same base but in a different version if you know what i mean exactly what you mean for example this year we had a lot of transit that i've never lived like for example neptune k enter ae last time it was eighteen hundreds i was not here we were uranus entered gemini eighty four years ago i wasn't here but not only i explained my students students what happened the last time this transit seat came up i also studied people who was born with it for example i was not alive when uranus was in gemini eighty four years ago but we have some people that would was were born with this transit and i'm like taking these people and saying okay let's see for example trump is one of them he was born with uranus in gemini how how would you describe him this this and that okay so this transit is starting now what about these characteristics you think it's happening so for example uranus and gemini you are very radical with your thinking it's either this or that and another thing that happens with rain in gemini is that you say one thing but in action you do something completely different so i never leave the transit but i explained this to my students and yesterday i ask okay what have we seen about doing something doing saying something doing something completely opposite and what have we seeing about people being very radical in their thinking you know what i and exactly so when you think about the the usefulness of astrology you see some sort of how else i described it like macro trends you see macro trends with a person or personality or an event on earth what is it not useful for then what do people what do people assume that astrology can tell them that it actually isn't like in some astrology say like i know what's gonna happen this afternoon is that two micro is that too like of a niche use for it first astrology astro we use what's called an or or is the separation in mathematical degrees for an event to happen there's astro that use a huge or and they don't have precision in their predictions the other thing is they narrow mind for example seeing a pluto transit and saying immediately this is gonna be death because there's others other ways to explain it for example the thing that these astro saw in my chart sun next to the south node he can say okay the south note is a point of release so if the sun that is essence is next to the south note your essence is gonna be released and then you can see another astro say no the thing is that you help people release all thinking you know yeah so that's why it's very important to open your mind keeps starting like get different point of use but yes if you go into micro trends for example just today the moon is having seven aspects like every twenty minutes and an hour and a half if i tell you everything that's gonna happen today you're not gonna leave your life so i don't focus myself in teeny tiny transit that are just gonna drive you crazy one of the things i tell the people that follow me is don't come to me the first thing you're doing in the morning get your mindset going like ask your day like how you want your day to be don't look for astrology to tell you how it's gonna be you know i don't want people depending on astrology i don't want people like getting this source of faith just in that that's not what i wanna teach because you're gonna go crazy so many things happen as logic in a day that micro trends or micro transit they just like i think they entertain people you know what i mean like if you hold on to it you're entertained like when you have a a subject that you talk about it all the time it's good for the coffee table but it's not good to leave that you need to have a alive you need to make your own your own choices so i focus more on big trends that we're gonna see and unravel through time for people to study develop and get a sense of it i assume people go crazy if you if you try and focus on like the minute by minute i've seen astro for example there's there are australians on x that every time there's an aspect they tweet the aspect so imagine can following that and getting every two minutes every five minutes like this is parallel to that this is next to that like you go crazy and i don't wanna like me myself i have no notifications on my phone i i i love silence i would hate to be the person who's always disrupting your attention if you know what i mean for me attention is very important i'm not gonna post something just for the means of like post it every time i post something i'm saying to myself i'm taking attention from this person like why people pay attention you know what i mean so it's very important to be conscious of that in my mind like that's what that's how i think no i i think that's smart i think that's wise i think that listen i'm not a big fan of social media in general but i think that if you use it for the right way it can be very beneficial to people but we don't need any any more people just contributing to stress and anxiety and constant like information over like it's not healthy there's enough people already doing it really that are just inundated people with like non nonstop not just astrology but like this is happening in the world over here and this war is happening over here and this bad thing happened over there and like i just feel like if you can if you can give a lot of value to somebody's life it's beautiful but not not through just like constant bombardment of like up to the second sometimes you know as i told you before furious is effective and attention is a business you know and i what i watch i curate what i read because i know how everything's is just going into me and even when i'm telling myself no like i don't believe in this is just everything getting into me so i try to create what what i what i consume and i also think in the same way with what i give yeah so i'm very respectful of that and a lot of people think with people like you or me that we leave all day in social media and i don't most of the times i post i checked the comments but i try to reduce a lot of my time in social media because like you get so distracted and it's very hard to have a business or to do many things when your attention is just scattered everywhere i i don't check social through the day there you go all maybe your call is like most of my content scheduled in advance most of my content schedule i do believe in answering questions in their comments because you build a community you're there for them and i don't let other people answer comments like if you see me or if you see a typo that was me like that was me but i don't spend the day like just looking at stories this and that i do at the end of the day if i see like memes and funny things i send it to my like my mom and my friends because i i need to like to have a laugh but i take very seriously i'm not taking people's attention for granted or to scare people or for example another thing that i don't do is like every time somebody dies so told start talking about the person who died and saying the transit i i i don't do that because i respect that like this is you're not gonna take that for a hook or for engagement that's what we to do they jump on they jump on these like really horrible world events yeah to make you know content and you see it all the time i i've never liked doing that i don't even like talking about world events in the podcast me because i'm like yes can i can i get more views yeah but i feel like it's i feel like it's cheap content i i think so too i think it also like morally and ethically like i don't know i just don't the hubspot podcast network is a success story partner now a quick podcast recommendation i've been listening to truth lies and work they're in the hubspot podcast network just like success story it's this husband and wife team a and lia elliott they break down why people actually do what they do at work so if you have a business if you manage people if you have to hire people any point you have to listen to their show i just listened to an episode on why good employees suddenly quit that's an issue that we all have and it totally clicked for me one of the reasons i explained is why it's not usually about the money it's about all these little promises that we as 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innovation and technological disruption picture this you are learning directly from amy poe about creative leadership you're getting ai insights from da modi who's literally shaping the future of artificial intelligence here's what makes inbound special it's not just the great keynote you're gonna dive into breakout sessions where you can immediately implement what you learn and plus san francisco legendary startup ecosystem provides the perfect backdrop for networking with all these great entrepreneurs decision makers industry leaders peers who are actively shaping the future of business from september third to fifth at the mo center you're gonna be surrounded by forward thinking professionals who turn insights and ideas into breakthroughs don't just watch the future unfold be part of creating it visit inbound dot com slash register to get your ticket today do you ever find i find this interesting because i've never heard of astro who sort of bring all these different disciplines and ideas into their work do you ever find that there's any conflict so between ka and astrology or other things like you find it like a teaching in ka kamala runs counter to what you learn in astrology oh yeah of course like traditional astrology yeah and and cabal astrology will clash all the time because traditional astrology tells you that something is as it is and that's what it is like if you're a leo this is how how you are and who you are and cab poses the question like really are you the main goal in qa astrology is that the moment you die nobody can tell if you were a leo or a vi like the whole point of capitalist astrology is like okay this is the potential but you're gonna elevate like above and in the end you're not labeled you i don't know if i'm expanding my myself sure yeah you are but you start with you start with a guide astrology is a guide for you have a guide but yeah the the one that i practice for example i always give this example because is very strong i was born with venus in scorpio and if you go into traditional astrology i'm a jealous person i'm like super intense and like i fall in loved once and i never let go i am a very passionate person but instead of using that dino in scorpion relationships i pour it into what i like and i have a return of investment instead of like saying no i'm just gonna love ones like ka teaches you how to use that energy for something ka is sharing like that's the purpose of ka so how do you use that for something it doesn't sometimes it doesn't even have to be good or purse purposeful but do something with it and psycho teaches you the same thing you're math okay what are we gonna do with it what do you wanna do with that energy you know what i mean like everything has a i use in my in my mind like something to do with it why why is traditional astrology so rigid like how does that help anybody you know what i don't think is rigid it's not astrology is is whoever is framing it you know what i mean okay but i do think this is changing i do i do see that there's like a new wave of astro it's not about age they're not all gen like i do believe there's that there has been an opening and i see more people creating content in a way that is to help you develop instead of framing you like or or labeling you i think that labeling side of trolley was very hard maybe in the early two thousands but it's is it has flourished a lot and i give credit to that also you know it's gonna you're gonna laugh but there's a lot of people that maybe they're not astro but they they make like funny content about astrology maybe some series astro are gonna say they don't help the cause but you know what i do believe that people that create means about astrology are helping two two things like two reasons why first they bring people to astrology that maybe would have never gotten an into astrology and i think the more it grows the better why not and second i love humor i think teaching with humor is very smart and if i can teach you something with humor and you can see the light side of something that you up from now you feel you felt like is very heavy maybe it opens yourself to okay yeah okay it's not that harm i'm gonna work on this you know what i mean so i do believe that everything helps a little bit no i i agree with you i think that listen if if you're trying to influence somebody and this is again not just with astrology but if you're trying to influence anybody and teach anybody anything like you have to meet them where they're at exactly you do you really have i mean this is why this is why a lot of like political people use memes to get an ideology across like this is it's not that you forget politics but the point is like it works if you want somebody to understand what you're talking about you have to meet them where they're at and and humor and memes it's like culturally relevant exactly so language the language that people understand so especially if you wanna get a younger generation on board like you do have to joke around about things like don't take life so seriously either because that starts the curiosity right and they start to learn ass astrology he has a very difficult language if you don't know it you hear about trying sex those conjunctions parallels and you have no idea and i know that if you don't know it as soon as you hear something like that you're disengaged you don't you can't because you can follow it so i do believe like speaking to you in a language you can hear what's my what's my goal for you to understand me yes or no so that always think what's your end goal oh also always think i i see a lot of people not in a astrology in life like talking about relationships in general not not lot relationships like this is how it affects me and this has happening to me is like you happen to other people too are you aware of how you happen to other people so i'm always like very aware of okay when i say this is this gonna make people understand or no and i use the simplest language or the simplest examples in real life i feel like i create astrology for people like me like i wanna connect with something but i wanna understand and be able to carry on with my life so i think the simplest way the better your message has to be like water that goes everywhere talk to me about talk to me about spiritual bypassing so what what is spiritual bypassing because i think that that's i mean we we spoke a lot about like not just removing personal responsibility because you believe in something you can't just remove personal response but i've never heard that term before what's spiritual bypass bypassing is when you use anything spiritual to avoid responsibility for it's literally what it is it is literally but example in the world of astrology would be i forgot to come to the podcast even though we had an agreement because mercury was retro great you know what i mean or for example yes i reacted in this explosive way the moon was con junk mars today so if you come to me with any of those things my dog ate that the the homework forget it but also in life so what's spirituality for you let me ask you for for me it's believing something bigger than myself okay it it's being put on this earth to to be a good moral ethical person to try and do my best to give value to the world to not leave a legacy in terms of like people remembering my name but leave a legacy with my kids so that they can carry on my values to next generation that's spirituality it's just like doing good beyond myself that's how i see it that's great for me spirituality is okay there's a spirit a spirit yeah that came into this body in in this earth in this finite like where material beings right and is seeing beyond the material like for example we're just talking but maybe this can spark something beyond you and i something like that for a lot of people's spirituality is meditating every day or going to temple church every day or every week doing yoga all the time you don't have an idea of how many angry messages i get from people saying that i'm not spiritual because i use makeup or from people saying that i'm not because i charge my for the business yeah yeah so for me spirituality is there's one line i do what i'm say i'm gonna do i do think on the consequences of things that i'm gonna do and i try to see things not as just like i take it for granted like i just what i see there's a ninety nine percent of everything i see you know what i mean like whatever i see in this material world this is the last step of manifestation whatever material we see it came from an idea i came from an energy for me in spiritual is never to forget that there's something beyond what we just can see so i remember going into this this class and the teacher saying for me more spiritual that if a person breaks my window coming to me and saying i'm sorry i broke your window and maybe i cannot pay you today but i'm gonna take responsibility for this of a person come and say i broke a window but i'm gonna pray and i'm gonna be and like you have a responsibility everything else that you take as an excuse not to take responsibility a bypass and i do take this also into astrology when i see people saying no this happened to me because of this and that for example no i have a mental fog because mercury is opposing saturn and i'm like girl if you've been with a mental fuck for a long time do a hormone panel yeah maybe there's mold in your house like like do like do a hormone panel no like be realistic like we have i i called this the school in the sense like okay i'm a spirit i'm a spirit that and having this experience what am i gonna do with this but i do have to take responsibility into account i do have to like take ownership on the of the things i'm doing on my mistakes on everything always knowing that i'm not what we said before this god or this ego you know what i mean i like that one one quote that you have that i thought was really really smart was and i think this ties into spiritual bypassing getting rid of all responsibility assuming that anything bad that happens in your life is not your fault at all but the quote is you'll never be happy if you get rid of unhappiness because you've gotta be fully alive to get happier so i think that i don't know if this is a too much of a stretch but i feel like if people use spiritual bypassing and they say that everything bad in their life is not their fault they're not taking ownership of it so they can't actually enjoy the things that are good in their life because they've never really taken ownership over the bad you know there's also the people that say everything happens for a reason you know yeah but why do you think that is because we're meaning making machines whatever happens your brain is gonna find a way to say oh this is why it happens like an association i believe that like when you understand how the mind works how the body works how energy works too you understand that all the range of emotions serve something so you can't deny any of those parts like going back to the spiritual on the material part let's say that being spiritual is just i'm completely detached from the material world but how are you gonna completely detach from your health or taking care of your body or like for example caring you have a family or caring for your family and caring to provide for them if you have a family in the most spiritual thing to like think about how you're gonna provide for them course yeah so that's the thing i think that anything that attaches you and takes you into a extreme is not gonna help you leave what you came to live you know all the contrast is what makes like the jews happen yeah so i think that terms have to be changing around spirituality or the spiritual bypass and really connect the three sixty of what we are that quote you mentioned about unhappiness yes you need that contrast to see you need your mistakes to like but you need to believe your mistakes or your own exactly yeah yeah but also your emotions are your own like everything is happening like is happening within you understand it and create from it don't run away from it even like everything serves something as i said sometimes i i have done things out of trauma for example when you ask me did you do this because you wanna try to prove to prove this guy wrong that i don't believe that's one of my pillars but for example i'm the kind of person that if my gas tank is in the middle i i wanna feel it right away and i know that's a trauma response of some like other things but it serves something once you see that you you you know what to do with it so when you see happiness and unhappiness once you appreciate happiness you own it and you say okay this is part of it okay you create something out of it like don't neglect one of your mistakes or experiences because everything adds to where you're gonna go in life you know what i mean i i know exactly what you mean do you feel or do you see with people that gravitate towards astrology they are looking at it as a band aid for something in their life just a general out like speaking general not everyone obviously but you feel like the majority of people you have to sort of reframe what it's actually for as opposed to what they're looking for yeah and i think that happens with law but it happens in everything because for example this type of forecast that you do i still to this day like one of the first things if i have time in the morning is i listen to some inspirational and i know it's a band aid sometimes but it helps me to break imaginary glass ceilings sometimes when you interview somebody that tells something that resonates with me like you can use use anything as a band yes astrology is gonna have like this it's like a huge band but it depends on how you guide them am i gonna allow for it to continue to be a band once you come into my content and you start hearing oh but how do you handle this is this your responsibility maybe i'm not that content creator that is gonna rock you to sleep maybe i'm more like a soft slap i like that maybe like a soft cosmic lap but i never i say this in my membership all the time i don't expect to you for being this membership forever i just expect for you to get the grounds and move on like graduate from it what has been because obviously astrology and and cabal and literally everything you've brought into your life has been for some some version of personal growth it's all some some v what has been the most impactful personal growth that you've gotten what is it what has changed in your life the most of the things that i've started yeah what has really actually helped you honestly and what did it do for you this mindset of being more proactive in the sense of am i gonna let this be like a step down or a steps stone as i said we're meaning making machines so the titanic for someone is a lot both for another one it's just perspective i do believe is convenient for you to try to see something that is hard us okay this is gonna polish me or this is gonna give me the strength that i i know i have i mean it's convenient for you to think that way i do believe that if you're gonna create a mindset create a mindset that it helps you but a mindset that you know makes you feel under your potential so i do believe like that mindset even though it's like a narrative it is like that a program it has helped me go through very difficult times is the ability to choose how i wanna see something and i'm not always choosing to see the circumstances like like no this is nothing this is only unicorns i tried to see in as an as an objective way but the way that i talk to myself you know what i mean yeah it has changed the way that i talk to myself another thing that really changed me is meditation and i i know exactly share but the things that i'm a very not impatient like my mind is always thinking creating so for me sitting down and just breathe was very hard like like i'm always doing something but it made a click when i was finally able to do it and i don't do it every day honestly but when i catch myself the way that i talk like the way that i talk to myself a lot of people you know you talk to to yourself every day and a lot of people are not aware of the words they use i've seen people saying i'm so stupid you know it happens all the time and i do believe that's that creates your self concept but a a thousand percent it does also from like a biological response and then you feel it yes like if you if you say i'm stressed i'm stressed i'm stressed yeah you can try to cortisol up and if this is scientifically proven so cab made me pause then i got into meditation and then i started changing the way that i talked to myself and then i got into the daily pages i don't know if you've heard of the daily pages this writing dale yeah no i i've never heard the daily pages but i also write every day just for my own mental health to be quite honest change like this was a game changer free flow right no i used to do the free flow writing daily pages i don't know if that's like a trademark thing i have no idea that's how i call it every day i write in present time things that i want for me to have like i wanted to hop like i want this podcast to go well no no this podcast is going is gonna go well so or for example i'm patient i'm kind i'm a patient listener is not it's something that i want to develop but you write it in present time and the things that your brain doesn't fat fact check all of this so when you say it let's say you're gonna call me and i'm like i wanna be patient no i'm i'm patient i'm kind i'm a i'm a patient listener there's more probability for me to be a patient listener when you're talking to me then just going another a pilot so i do this every day on things that i want i i i right in present time and in that moment you start creating the newer pathways for that to happen and you just practice and practice and practice so let's say this week before every meeting that i have i'm a leader i'm a patient leader let's say that i do this for five meetings that i have this week and then next week i wait before three meetings i'm already practicing it so it it goes developing it's like a new way of being it's like that fake till you make it except you are literally you you're literally taking on the persona of that thing and then you actually become that thing for me it does work it has work i started doing it last year and for me it has worked but depends on how you do it i guess some people do it like i am a millionaire i am like i do things on traits that i wanna like see better in myself this example that i just gave is like my typical daily pitch and patient i listen like those things that i know that because i always go fast and i think very fast so it has create like this new persona until you're that persona you know what i mean if people are consuming your content and they and they know your content and they're looking to help themselves change their lives something's going wrong in their life and they're looking to astrology or listening to this podcast and they and they just are looking for guidance mh you've said that you cannot remove personal responsibility but what is the advice to somebody who is struggling and looking for wisdom in astrology ka kamala with your content anything else where do they go who do they listen to where do they start i tried to share content in my stories and also have to channels on instagram i'm where i leave like voice i love voice notes so i think that's one of the things that i love the most about that platform if they they're following me following me on instagram because that's if i'm gonna share that's where i share the most the channels allow me like to leave voice notes and i always leave voice notes that are not related to astrology are more like reflections of the day and a lot of people tell me like this reflection of the day like has helped me a lot help me see saw saw something in a different way so i would start there just like looking at the stories in the stories i always start the day with like what the moon is doing not telling you what to do like how the bible is and then i share inspirational things that motivate you to like take a step forward take a step forward i know that the membership is not is not for everyone not everyone wants to study the astrology but i do believe like the boys notes the stories i also share a lot of post with you're not gonna realize that is a astrology or but it is related for example yesterday i spoke in a post about collaboration like the importance of collaborating with other people because we're in libra and libra is to collaborate so as i told you astrology is like this umbrella and i'm teaching you about it sometimes without even you knowing that it's happening but you know where the wisdom coming from and this is how you should interpret exactly like i'm trying i always i ask myself what do i want people to feel when they enter into any of my pages and i want people to feel inspired to feel energy and to feel like i i wanna i click seize the day like that way so i always try to share stuff like that not with unicorns and candy candy but like with a realistic approach like an everyday approach simple things but i'm very aware of how i want people to feel so start there starting the story start simple start reading to see if it resonates with you if it doesn't resonate with you it doesn't matter it's all good i have a lot of people that day to day question me like surely he's not a science it doesn't work and i don't fight with anybody i feel like everybody should take what serves for them in the moment and if it if it sparks something they'll continue but i don't believe in forcing or improving anything like trying to prove something to somebody no i don't believe that and if people want to use it as a tool not again to remove responsibility but to better understand themselves they'll start to consume your content but what is the actual place where you can actually start to learn who you want membership that is like in the membership right now i give classes three times per week and it's gonna help you like if you're really basic intermediate or advanced you're gonna find something for you is not only gonna teach you to understand your chart but also understand the language of astrology also every monday i give this class that it's not about astrology but about mindset like how your brain works how to change your mindset how to like be aware of your yourself concept like catching your your bias or the things that you don't see and work like growing into this i don't believe i love astrology but i believe that it needs to work with other tools that make people take responsibility because when you first encounter trolley you're talking about planets that are out there and sometimes you believe that default is in the stars so with either mindset i give people other tools to say hey i'm here so this is what we're doing this week or this is what we and i do have continuity for example this monday goes with next monday so you're like growing step by step by step so i do feel like there's like i'm accountable for these people so i keep like developing the tools one by one we'll tell you where to start how to go step by step in the membership if you're new to it and people love it like people feel like they understand everything sometimes yes it's like oh like behind in classes like this class was one one hour some people love long classes other people they like go slower i do understand that that's why i do believe like if you really want to get to know yourself if you really wanna have a pause in your life like okay i'm gonna take this class thirty minutes for me is an excellent tool it's like an amazing way to start my goal is for you to listen to yourself like have that moment some people do it in yoga some people do it in other things yesterday one of the students told me like you have no idea like just listening to you sometimes i'm listening to you and i'm not doing like re reaching my chart or checking my chart but just taking a pause and listening to you is like the moment that i have with myself so whatever helps girl whatever i love it last thing i always like to ask if you've learned so much over your life and now you teach a whole bunch of different topics to your to your students and your community but if you had to pick one idea that was one of the more impactful ids it's really helped shape your life you could be teaching it to your twenty year old self you're younger self you could be it could be a lesson that you'd wanna pass on to the next generation just something that really stands out what would that lesson be and why i'm taking this question is if i have to say something to my younger self and i would say that you create your own destiny like for me to believe that there are trends energetic trends not like fashion trends like to believe that there energetic trends do we believe that for sure there's things that we came to experience in this life but that i have the freedom to choose how i'm gonna transcend these situations i think that has been my biggest learning to feel like that i have a choice that i'm not in just that this little box and everything is written and i'm just condemned to have certain life you know i do believe we have like i came to me dispute this person and i came to do this and that but you can always choose how you know what i mean like the how is up to you claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under unprepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles that nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources about my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for claude today and get fifty percent off quad pro when you use my link cloud dot ai slash success

indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from indeed seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at a four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that use ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need companies using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform choosing if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed build for what's now and what's next in tech hiring hey football fans drew reese here k play and owners box have teamed up for the next generation of daily fantasy sports first time players can get twenty five dollars in free entries plus two hundred and fifty fuel points and you can score all season long with two times the fuel points for every dollar spent to use it k fuel centers gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler void wear prohibited eligibility restrictions apply eighteen plus most eligible states but age varies by jurisdiction offers valid between eight six twenty five and one five twenty six terms apply see full terms and conditions at owners box dot com slash football fuel points tc in this lessons episode explore why showing your work publicly has become the ultimate currency for building credibility and opportunity online discover how transparency and proof of work drive community growth and long term success understand how creators can product their skills to create scalable income and uncover strategies to stay focused amid distract and avoid chasing every new trend i'm not sure if you if you if you did this purposefully or not but also i found that everything you did you built a great community around it so it wasn't just putting out great content like there was a great community that you built it and if i'm not mistaken even the products that you the the the course the final the second course i'm not sure about the first one but did you build those in public as well like you involve the community in so that's something else that i noticed that people that do it very well especially on twitter just because it seems to be like such a huge or the organic reaches immense compared to many other social platforms so walk me through if you have any tips on on building that community because if somebody does build one sell twice that's they have a product fine but how do you build this reach because that's really what's going to really benefit right yeah i think one of the one of the advantages i have as a designer and one of the things has been like extremely instrumental in the like the development of my career is show my work so it's like nobody's ever cared about my degree nobody's ever cared about where i went to school every interview i've gone to every like job i've even every project i've gotten to work on internally an agency has been because of the thing i did last so and you have a very tangible set of assets to point to as a designer because you you produce a portfolio of work like this is a project i worked on this is a brand i design this is a website i built and i think that was almost a subconscious advantage for such a long time because i'd always had that mentality right it's like it doesn't it doesn't matter what you tell me show me what you did and that's how that's how i'd managed to move jobs and get a job in the first place by showing my portfolio so i think that's in that's a skill that other not even a skill it's a a practice i should say that other the other industries and other disciplines are coming around to now so if you're you know if your academia does this like they published what they're thinking about right they're always producing there's is always an output of okay this is the research that we've done this is how we're gonna present it this is you know our thesis and i think convincing people that whatever is you're thinking about you have an opportunity to put like produce deliverables that convey that right and that to me is it's like a fundamental shift in thinking that seems completely obvious to me as a designer but when i introduce that concept to other people that are like oh yeah that's a great idea i'm gonna start doing that and the idea that you think you're gonna get discovered or people will you know actively seek out your thinking without doing that is i mean it's insane when you look at it that way but it's but that's what everybody does towards what everybody does right right assume that someone's just gonna come and like pluck you out and be like oh can you yeah can you sell me on your services and you know the way the i mean the internet is just monstrous force in that equation right every there's an naval evolved quote the the internet the internet democrat consumption but consolidate production so if you're the best in the world at anything you get to do it for everyone and that's like a really huge overlooked force in society i think that just because you've had this experience offline or because you have this anecdote of a friend of yours that got you know that knew somebody and got this job here proof of work is now like the currency that is gonna move your career forward i think in almost every field and people who can produce visual assets or tangible assets or record podcasts or make videos are just that much more likely to generate luck you know create relationships at scale because you know it's just sheer surface area and that is just a the one thing i think that it's hugely underestimated and it takes a long time to build it and get good at it and all of those things but yeah that but that's what differentiates that's having that asset right is what differentiates how do you so this is something that now you teach over to people that are building the the build one the build once sell twice so as part of that i'm assuming you actually have the the way to idea on on how to product ties your your knowledge and your your experience but also part of that is also the the building the community building the brand and that's is that the core lesson the core learning is to is to show your work in some format or another and i guess i'm just thinking through like for for somebody who is in a designer of podcast youtube whatever it may be that's probably the easiest way there are are there other ways that you can show work i'm just curious i don't know yeah if there's something else that you would recommend people do to build out this brand well another thing that's interesting and this is like there's so much nuance to this and it often doesn't get covered in conversations about it but the one of the fundamental things i think is do you have a skill set that allows you to produce a result for someone on your own if you do then you have a massive opportunity to teach other people that skill set right if you're a a designer a writer video producer if you produce something tangible or you have you can analyze data in a certain way there's is it's like reverse engineering the results so a huge part of the curriculum is to get people focused on the result they generate and then essentially build things that help you deliver that result with a less linear relationship to your time over time so you begin as a designer that spends three days with a founding team getting all the information out of them and then turning that into a asset the second iteration of that is you have systems to collect that information from them and you write better questions and you spend less time you spend less time like grilling people individually so it gets more and more efficient and then eventually you have a program that's so watertight because you've sent a hundred people through it and you've spike figured out all the blind spots and figured out what you need to introduce somebody to at what time in order to get them to think about something in a different way that helps you like slowly divorce your time from the delivery of the result but i think that is the intros question that all of this begins with is like if if i if i can create leverage for someone else on my own then i can produce an asset that essentially replicates my ability to do that and that like we're in a period of time now where it's really hard to build that very specific skill set and stay focused long enough to be able to produce that result right when i started my career i would get like two text messages a day and i'd read them on my lunch break people that are like practitioners and trying to learn skills now are gone on twitter or instagram every forty five seconds and it feels like you're missing the boat every time you look at something else right it's like oh i should be working on this or i should be you i should learn that skill or i should be following this person and and like emulate what they're doing so i'm really empathetic to the fact that it's harder or at least my perspective of it is it's really difficult to build these stand skills yeah you have that shiny object syndrome for sure right that's not always an issue now with social and and constant exposure and you're always questioning whether or not you're doing it right even if you're getting results should you redo it or learn something new or do it a different way so how do you how do you personally focus on what's driving results and not follow that shiny object all the time it it it's increasingly difficult right the the amazing thing about building a business like this is it sort of trails your curiosity so you have to you have to be interested in something that you're not quite great at in order to continue to like deliver those learnings to people who haven't gone down the same path as you but you also have to recognize when you are like just completely distracted and wasting time and the that's the the like the amazing thing about the internet as it cuts both ways right you can go super deep and build once sell twice the addressable market for that is enormous you could go and sell that for a decade probably right there's enough people that have not been exposed to those ideas but you can get in this little echo chamber where you've you've you start to burn out on on that thinking because you've been teaching it for a year for example but then you you could switch too far in a different direction right or for me like my shiny object is crypto so i'm like down all these different rabbit holes you know i played around with n nxt this year and i'm incredibly like i'm a huge believer in all this technology but there's also a cost to being distracted from the thing that a hundred thousand people know you for for example thanks for tuning in if you found this valuable don't forget to hit that subscription eye buttons so you never miss an episode and if you wanna dive deeper into this conversation check out the links in the description to watch the full episode see you in the next one subscribe claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under prepared now claude has completely changed my prep game if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles that nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources but my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for claude today and get fifty 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indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from indeed seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at a four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that uses ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need companies using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform choosing if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed build for what's now and what's next in tech hiring my name is kim harrison i am a eleven year survivor from a bone marrow transplant we grew up as forbes family and i have grandchildren in that play my goal was just to do everything i could to heal because i wanna be there for them i recommend people never give up because there's always hope eleven years later i got the best seat take a second for the right team at car dot org backslash second opinion or call one eight hundred car in this lessons episode explore how real leadership starts with self awareness and alignment rather than authority discover why defining core values builds clarity and confidence understand how emotional ownership strengthens relationships and choices and uncover how effective coaching drives growth through discomfort and transformation so i i i wanna dig into that point just touched sean leadership and obviously so so great points leadership is not cx xo leadership is is how you conduct yourself in your life and i think that yeah that mental shift of that lens that you look at leadership through is an important distinction so what are what are some practical steps just for we can we a lot of people here are obviously executives but also moms and dads what would be some over overarching step that people should try and take to be better leaders in their life and their vision and understand their impact yeah i love that question so one of the first think about leadership as who you be informs what you do so if you are disgruntled overwhelmed and anxious on the inside then as you are doing whatever it is you need to do that's the experience you're gonna have so one of the best ways to get really clear on who you are is to define your values and it's amazing scott i'll i'll start working with clients and also i'll okay let's talk about your values do you know your values and say yeah yeah i know my values okay great tell me your values i'm sorry you scratch the surface a little bit they don't know their values so for anybody who's watching actually you can go to my website sign up for my email i have put together a super simple turnkey guide to help you figure out your values everyone has around you know five to seven values and once you get clear on your values and you define them on your terms then you have a very different experience because if you think about it if you start to make decisions from your values rather than expectations of what you think you should be doing or what you think your family should doing already you're gonna have an experience it is much more in alignment with what matters to you so for me one of my top values is connection so as i'm moving throughout the day as well as impact i'm asking myself what value does this line with i need to make a decision okay is this in accordance with my values that's a very different experience than alright what does it i need to get done today what should i be doing and so it allows people to feel so much more empowered so i would say for anybody who's watching the very first thing you could do if you did nothing else was get get clear on your values to find them and the start to play with what does it look like to live from your values what does it like to make decisions from your values and you'll be amazed at the different kind of results you get both in the workplace and at home and i guess my question because everybody he said thinks they know their values and even if they they even if they do have an understanding of what their values are we slip we slip all the time yeah we i slip probably you know two hundred times a day on on on i think i'm a good person i think i have good values but something you know rubs me the wrong way and then i react or the conversation after the thing that rubbed me the wrong way is now you know that the emotion it's gone to that conversation is a negative emotion even though the person had no bearing on what actually triggered me in the first place these are very common human tendencies they are so how do you get rid of how do you how do you yeah what what's the answer tell you so really great point what you said so one of the biggest principles i got out of my master's program spiritual psychology is that if if we get triggered as human beings it's an unresolved issue of that belongs to us it's getting triggered it actually has nothing to do with you so if you are being disrespectful to it doesn't mean that you get a haul pass for being that way but it's on me to look at okay why did that trigger me so much so as a coach one of the things that i do is i invest a lot in my own mentorship so i work with a true team of coaches which by the way for anybody who's looking at a coach you wanna make sure you're the coach that you're working with is actually investing in themselves one of the best tools is called completion and it's a process where you are getting complete on your side of the fence of what you're bringing to the table so the ultimate goal is if you've got energy on you scott about something that is gonna carry over into how you show up and relate to someone so you wanna take on a very practical exercise which is called completion it involves writing three different letters it takes no more than twenty minutes but what it does is it helps you first and foremost express what's there for you whether you're mad or frustrated you're upset whatever it is get it all out then it's about taking a look at okay what's there for me to own what can i be responsible for and then the third piece is around what can i acknowledge both the other person and both for me and sometimes i have to do completion multiple times around the same situation or the same person but it is truly the only tool that i have learned that my coaches have taught me if i want to be able to come into a situation and feel neutral so that i can approach it from the a very clear leadership then that's that's on me to get complete and it doesn't require anyone to apologize to me it's it's it's really on me and i think that's you know if people went around in the world getting complete on their own stuff so they weren't lobbying their own stuff over to other people we would have very different experiences throughout the day because you're right we're human beings it's not that we're we we go through the day and it's not that we're in leadership twenty four seven it's that we fall out our leadership and what i always say to my clients it's like how quickly can you get back into leadership rather than withdrawing for a day or getting to do it with a colleague and you know going down that rabbit hole great question i love that i and i i i keep wanting to you know just double down in the fact that this this definition of leadership is truly changing who you are to be a better person that's that's really the end goal that's and and that actually you know when when we first connected one of the things i wanted to speak to you about was coaching as as a concept yeah of course when you when you look at it through that lens when you look at the ability to become a better person in everything you do it's not hard to understand why that could be a good thing to subscribe to but let's let's speak about let's speak about coaching and as opposed to me just going on you know it says it's funny because i i don't go on youtube and i don't investigate this but say say i i need to be sold on on coaching right i just well why would i pay somebody to teach me this when i can just go figure it out myself yeah so you know that's something that i think always comes up with coaches because people need to people need to buy into it they've either already bought into it or a lot of people will say i i have no need for that that's not gonna positively impact me they they and you know it's funny because people get a personal trainer but i know they but i think it's a physical like they see the physical result and how do you measure the roi on a coach how do you measure how do you measure whether or not a coach i i don't think anybody would shi like a good coach or somebody that can actually help them but how do you sell somebody or how do you not sell somebody how do you prove to somebody that you can actually help them impact their life oh gosh such a great question and so many places that we could that we could go with it i'm just thinking where i wanna start with this i think from you deal with it you you live it every year yeah i do you know the coaching industry has become one of the biggest industries where mh money is spent and at the same time the bar is so low that anybody can get into coaching which is dangerous because it can create integrity issue and so i i can't speak for other coaches i can only speak for myself and why why i invest in coaching and why my people invest in coaching and i think at the end of the day it's because we by nature want to be comfortable we don't wanna feel any sense of discomfort if you are wanting to deepen your connection with clients in service to doubling your bottom line if you are wanting to create a bigger impact whether it's in your personal life for your professional life any of those goals are gonna require you to do something and behave differently than you are currently doing in order to do that you're gonna have to feel uncomfortable we don't like to feel uncomfortable a i know for me and i joke with my clients but i truly believe at the end of the day the reason that they pay me isn't necessarily for accountability it's because i'm willing to say things to them that nobody else would say so for example a couple years ago i was an enrollment conversation with one of the top creative executive creative directors in the country he's just an unbelievable human being but his work is out of this world and he kept repeating the story and finally i just looked at him and i said can i give you a reflection and he said yes and i said i am so bored by the story if i'm bored by it you must be bored by it and he laughed and he said you're the first person that has told me their bored by i said i'm so bored by it but it was a story in an event that happened in the news he was a part of a company that had a huge issue with and he said he hired me on the spot but i mean that's when the conversation changed and started to talk about what it looked like to work together so i truly believe people who value growth by nature will be interested and will want to consider coaching but really the role of a good coach is to keep reflecting back to clients what they're seeing in their way of being and we all know this but our relationship to feedback including my own and i've done a lot of work around on feedback that is not easy to hear or work with and so it's less about okay here's the program we're gonna work and here's what we're i'm gonna do every week it's like no let me tell you what i'm noticing right now in your presence let me tell you what i'm noticing in your tone let me tell you what i'm seeing and so that kind of level of work requires a whole different type of leadership if you wanna have a different experience in the physical world but also internally so thanks for tuning in if you found this valuable don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode and if you wanna dive deeper into this conversation check out the links in the description to watch the full episode see you in the next one claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under unprepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles than nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources about my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for claude today and get fifty percent off quad pro when you use my link cloud dot ai slash success life is unpredictable but preparing for the unexpected shouldn't be take ownership of your life planning with policy genius to help your loved ones have a financial safety net in case something happens to you they offer life insurance policies starting at just two hundred and seventy six dollars a year for one million dollars in coverage don't wait for life to make other plans protect your family today heads a policy genius dot com that's policy genius dot com

indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from indeed seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at a four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that use ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need companies using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform choosing if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed build for what's now and what's next in tech hiring in this lessons episode we're gonna talk about why your relationship feels dead you look at your partner you feel nothing you think it means you chose wrong but it doesn't every long relationship cycles through falling in and out of love multiple times now most people leave during the out phase and never make it back to the end i'll reveal the three phases every relationship cycles through and how to choose going back in and falling back into love instead of leaving when everyone else does let's talk about why falling out of love is normal but leaving isn't now just a quick note before i get into this this is not my usual content i don't usually write and podcast about relationships but i've been thinking about this particular topic a lot because it really affects everything else your relationship with your spouse your significant other it bleeds into your work into your focus into your energy into your decision making into whether you're building or just surviving in a bad relationship drains everything a good one compounds everything and the difference between a bad and a good relationship isn't what most people think so here it is this is why i wanna talk about relationships year three month seven in your relationship you're making dinner together you realize you haven't had a real conversation in weeks not an argument not logistics about who's picking up groceries or when rent is do a real conversation and then you look at them across the kitchen and you feel nothing not anger not resentment just absence the person you couldn't stop thinking about three years ago the one who made your chest height when they walked into a room you got butterflies right the one who you stayed up until three am talking to because sleep felt like a waste of time together the person is standing right there and you feel like roommates this is the moment most people panic because they think falling out of love means it's over and i'm here to tell you it's not it's just the first cycle see what nobody tells you about long marriages well let's look at johnny cash and june carter they are married thirty five years and if you read the stories it sounds like a perfect love story but if you dig deeper you find out the truth they separated multiple times cash is addiction nearly destroyed them there were years where june couldn't stand to be in the same room with him years where she questioned whether staying was destroying her but she stayed throughout all the phases and he fought his way back when the relationship wasn't going so well not once but multiple times and when cash died june said we've had a love affair that has lasted through the hardest times not one love affair a love affair that lasted through multiple versions of itself see that's what long marriages actually are not one continuous feeling multiple love stories with the same person you fall in love then life happens kid stress career changes money problems health issues boredom you fall out not because you chose the wrong person because that's what happens when two people live together long enough to become different people than who they were when they met so the question isn't whether you'll fall out of love you will at some point the question is whether you'll choose to fall back in see if you stay in a relationship long enough you are gonna cycle through three phases multiple times the first phase is love this is the easy part everything about them is fascinating their habits are end enduring their flaws are quirks and you want them around constantly sex is easy conversation is effortless you think about them when they're not there this phase is chemically driven your brain is flooded with dopamine oxytocin all the bonding chemicals that make you obsessed it feels like magic it's actually biology and it doesn't last and it's not because the relationship is wrong it's because brains aren't designed to maintain that level of chemical intensity forever phase two is out of fluff and this is where a lot of people quit divorce rates are very high right now chemicals wear off you start seeing them clearly the habits that we're end are now annoying and the quirks are now flaws they chew too loudly they never close the cabinet at doors they tell the same stories at every dinner party they don't listen when you talk about your day sex requires effort conversation feels forced you think about them when they're not there but not in a good way and you start wondering what did i choose wrong is this all there is shouldn't i feel more than this this is the moment and this is where people leave they think falling out of love means it's over that the right person would make them feel the way they didn't in phase one forever so they go find someone new and guess what happens phase one again then phase two again then they leave again and they spend their whole life chasing phase one without realizing that phase three exists and what is phase three it's when you choose back in this is the part nobody talks about because it's not romantic it's not passion it's not chemistry it's a decision you decide to see them differently not who they were when you met not who you wish they were who they actually are right now you decide to be interested in them again to ask questions to listen to answers to notice the small things you decide to prioritize the relationship when you don't feel like it to have the hard conversation instead of avoiding it to show up when it's easier not to and something strange starts to happen the feeling comes back it's not the exact same feeling as phase one it's deeper because it's built on reality instead of fantasy you fall back in love not because they changed but because you chose to now what ends most relationships is that people think falling out of love means they chose wrong people think that when those initial chemicals wear off and you are no longer lust and in with that person anymore it means they chose wrong and people believe this myth that the right person will make you feel in love with butterflies forever that good relationships don't require work that if you are not constantly passionate about this person then something's broken so they leave during phase two they find someone new the experience phase one again with that person then phase two hits and they think they chose wrong again and they never make it to phase three they never learned that the deepest connection comes from choosing someone over and over not from the initial spark i know a married couple they've been together forty years i asked them their secret and the husband said we never fell out of love at the same time see that's it that is the secret you'll fall out they'll fall out but if you can stay through each other's out phases and choose to fall back in you get something that most people never experience multiple love stories with the same person each one deeper than the last now what does this require from you to stay together well choosing back in choosing to fall back in love with the person it's more than just staying together it's active it's work this is what it actually looks like you notice when you're in the out phase instead of pretending everything's fine or assuming it's over you tell them out loud i'm in and out phase right now i don't feel connected this is normal and i'm choosing to work through it and you do things you don't feel like doing you have conversations when you'd rather scroll on your phone you show affection when you feel distant you plan dates when you'd rather stay home you remember the feeling doesn't create the choice the choice creates the feeling and you stop waiting to feel and love before acting like you're love you act your way back in and i know it sounds un romantic and people wanna believe love is about feelings not decisions but the couples who last don't have better feelings they have better commitment to the choice the feelings come and go the choice is what stays see understanding this changes more than your relationship it changes how you see commitment in every area of your life you're gonna fall in and out of love with your work your business your creative projects your goals and most people quit during the out phase they think falling out of love with what they're building means they should start something new but the pattern is the exact same chase the new thing you're gonna hit phase one you will hit the grind which is phase two you're gonna quit and you're gonna repeat and people never make it to phase three in their work their career their goals their spouse they don't hit phase three in anything they never experience what happens when you choose to stay committed through the boring middle and find the deeper engagement on the other side so whether or not it's the relationship a business a craft the principle is the same you will fall out of love with it but that's not a sign that you chose wrong that's a sign that you're in phase two so the question becomes will you quit or will you choose back in see long marriages aren't proof that some people are just meant to be they're proof that some people chose to stay through multiple out phases and build multiple love stories with the same person it's not more romantic it's actually harder it's more boring and it's more repetitive but it's also deeper more real and more sustainable so you don't find the perfect person than then everything is easy you find someone worth choosing and then you choose them over and over through the in phases and the out phases that's what for better or worse actually means not that worse won't come that you'll stay through worse and choose your way back to better most people leave during worse they think worse means over but long marriages understand that worse is just a phase and phases change if you stay long enough to let them you'll fall out of love it's normal the falling out is in failure leaving during the out phase is so my challenge to you is to choose to fall back in love and see what happens claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under prepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for minds that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles that nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources about my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for cloud today and get fifty percent off quad pro when you use my link cloud dot ai slash success

and doug le and i always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with liberty mutual but now we want you to feel it queue the em music le save yourself but need to dare you will custom and save we see that may have been too much feeling only pay for what you need at liberty mutual dot com liberty liberty savings very by liberty mutual insurance company in affiliates excludes massachusetts being able to do what you want when you want with whoever you want for as long as you want is really what money buys you when i was young i didn't come from any money we had one grocery store trip every two weeks from the food ran out so i had to work growing up very early today's guest is a strategist for wealth not in theory but in practice nick perry is an investor coach who guides entrepreneurs and professionals to build scalable portfolios and un ent themselves from trading time for money when i moved to austin texas i started youtube how to do real started taking some action but i failed miserably in my first year real estate it took me like a hundred and four appointments before i got my first deal sales and marketing at the two highest skill sets that you can have that will get you paid more than anybody if you can get good at marketing and sales then you can start your own business the reason ninety percent wholesaler fail is they can't get consistent reliable high quality marketing going they're bouncing from one marketing channel to another and nothing is really working for them he teaches the rules of capital mindset and of income not just passive but purposeful wealth nick doesn't just talk about investing he builds pathways for financial freedom biggest reason that i see most people fail is shiny object syndrome they'll do something for three months six months maybe a year two and then they jump into the next thing you have to stay laser focused and i would rather be a master at one thing than a jack of ball turd nick tell me what this means to you true wealth isn't measured in dollars but in freedom to live anywhere work on anything and answer to no one yeah you know being able to do what you want when you want with whoever you want for as long as you want is really what money buys you nothing in a store is gonna give you any sort of fulfillment right this is a twenty dollar zara sure but i just got back from you know two hundred thousand dollar vacation in europe and that two hundred thousand dollar vacation was worth more to me than anything because i was able to stay out there as long as i won't give my family experiences that most people can't give them and that's what true wealth is is freedom that's what money really buys you how did you come to this realization that this is what you wanted to build because i think that a lot of people when they start entrepreneurship they're looking for more money they're looking for freedom but they end up not getting it they end up working more than they ever did in a corporate job so what allowed you to sort of escape the golden handcuffs that a lot of entrepreneurs find themselves in yeah it was a cycle when i when i was young i didn't come from any money like my parents were my dad he barely can make ends meet i mean we had you know one grocery store trip every two weeks when the food ran out it ran out and so i had to work growing up very early yeah and i would see all my friends you know getting new cars when they're sixteen being able to go out and take you know these fun trips and that wasn't in the cards for me and it used to really piss me off that money was a limiting factor in my life so from a young age i always said i do not want money to ever be a limiting factor in my life and i realized you know from then that money bought freedom it bought resources in order to do what you want with with whoever you want for as long as you want and when i got into business and i started making money that's when you know i went through the phase of buying all the designer clothes you know bought a ferrari you know did all the stuff that you know you do when you first get it and none of it brought me any fulfillment you know nothing that you can buy in a store will give you any sort of lasting thing happiness you get a short term dopamine net when you look back on your year and you say what was the best things to happen this year you're thinking about the vacations you took with your family the amazing experiences you have it's not man i went and i bought this new pair of you know designer shoes or you know i i bought this dang it's never about the thing it's always about the experiences and the impact that you make right so giving back to people and creating experiences where you're gonna have the the most lasting fulfillment so i just learned it through this yeah school or not it's funny how again like super ambitious people they all they all start something for the material like like i wanna have a nice car i wanna you know i wanna live in a bigger house i wanna buy a nicer watch i'm doing all this vanity shit basically i wrong with it if you make money go for it but then they do that and they work so hard and they don't have vacations and they don't spend time with their family and they don't do all the things that actually give joy in life and i feel like a lot of entrepreneurs they they just have it backwards it's like they feel like entrepreneurship is like you have to be working twenty four seven you if you aren't working you almost feel guilty you feel like you're you're like not being whatever like of productive you feel like you're like well if i'm taking time off like i'm not getting as much done as i could get done so like i'm not being the best possible entrepreneur this isn't what i signed up for and you almost like self i don't know what the word is self sabotage self sabotage a little bit right you like ruin all the other parts of your life in pursuit of just chasing money yeah and a lot of times when you are doing that you're actually delaying the process so being an entrepreneur is a lot like being a farmer you're going out and you're planting seeds in the ground you're watering their seeds you're being patient waiting for those seeds to you know grow but what most entrepreneurs a k farmers will do is they'll plant the seed the water it they'll sit there they'll look at it it's not growing they'll start kicking it yeah right and so you're kicking up your own seeds so when a lot of entrepreneurship is actually just patience and you got to let the seeds grow and just sit back and let let the gestation period happen and so i've realized that as long as you have the right people the right processes and things are in place you have to be patient and trust to process for things to grow and that doesn't mean working harder one of my one of my good friends i've told this story a few times i think it's so relevant so he runs a publicly traded company very busy guys he's had exist in the past and he said that having kids was the best thing that ever happened to him because it forced him to only work on certain things so i think a lot of people just focus on everything they could possibly do and they don't focus on the one the few things that actually move the needle whereas for him like having kids force him to only work on certain things because he needed time for the kids as well so it almost hyper prioritize and hyper focused him but i don't think a lot of people have that wisdom when they're just starting out like you said i had to go through it i mean i was the guy that was you know rising grind four thirty am we're putting in eighty hour weeks and it's go go go go go and i did that for fifteen years and i created amazing company and i actually kinda got forced out of my office so explain what happened you know i built a pretty successful real estate investment company and i had you know great team and it came time to promote one of my my coo to the ceo yeah and so i promoted him to the ceo of my company and when i did that it basically i fired myself yeah and so when i did that i kept going to the office every day and he's like dude you gotta let me run so i said okay you know what was like let me do my job yeah so i had to i had to get out of actually i austin texas which is where my office is from because i couldn't sit at home and knock go to the office that's so funny so i moved actually here to miami florida and i went through an identity crisis i felt useless every single day i was going to the gym twice a day going out to dinner and you know i was just kinda sitting around loss like because that was my identity and that's where i ended up learning a lot of those lessons that i think most people don't get to i think we do sabotage advertise our own success more often than not but i made more money that year when i left then when i was in my office grinding and out every day so doing very well in like corporate america nine to five so you started with indeed and you were making over two hundred grand a year with indeed so that to me is what a where a lot of people get stuck they make a ton of money in a corporate job they have a great nine to five they have like these golden handcuffs where they're making good money and i think that a lot of people just get stuck in this position for a lot of their career and they don't actually take the jump and they don't actually build something themselves why did why did you take that job and why did you why did you leave it well i took that job because i moved to austin texas and i wanted to start my own company i was a personal trainer and i saw that all my wealthy clients all own businesses and so in order to have financial freedom you couldn't work for the man your entire life that was very clear to me and when i moved to austin texas i started youtube how to do real estate started taking some action but i failed miserably in my first year real estate i think most do though yeah it was brutal took me like a hundred and four appointments before i got my first deal it was rough and so during that time i was like i got take a job in order to keep this you know dream alive yeah so i got a job at indeed i was down to eight hundred dollars in my bank account about to get a victim from my apartment indeed took a flyer on me and hired me on and i said before i showed up on my first day to myself i said i'm gonna go in here and do whatever they tell me to do absolutely crush this job so i get out of this job as quick as possible so i went from eight hundred dollars in the bank account to rookie the year top gun making you know quarter million dollars a a year very quickly at indeed but i took all that money and i put it into my business so i had my nine to five yeah then i had my five to two yeah right yeah and i worked every evening and every weekend till i was able to build myself out of that job but that was always their goal before even started that role do you think that's like the way people should sort of set themselves up because i see a lot of people that just jump into into entrepreneurship or they quit a job and have like a few month savings and then that's when they start building a company but i like the way you did it so you were making money good money mh relatively good money to grand is a good salary well i guess it's sales too so there's probably a base plus some so you're good at selling and then you just took all that money and just started like funding basically your own business do you think that's how people should start absolutely update that sales is the number one job for anybody that wants to start their own business sales and marketing are the two highest skill sets that you can have that will get you paid more than a doctor more than a lawyer more than anybody and that if you can get good at marketing and sales then you can start your own business but you need to have income coming in it's not unheard of that you can just start from cold but life's a lot easier when you have you know money was there anything else because you were an inside sales and indeed was there anything else that you learned from corporate america that was actually stuff that you learned from corporate america that is very useful for entrepreneurs that are starting sales or otherwise but also what did you learn in corporate america that is not helpful if you're trying to start a business yeah so what i learned that was helpful yeah is a ton i'm in indeed one of the top sales organizations in the entire country yeah so just corporate structure you know that accountability that you have in corporate america is the same culture that i have in my company now all of the metrics and what it takes to actually be successful in sales you know sixty calls a day a hundred and twenty minutes on the phone you know quotas all that stuff is now adopted into my own company now in terms of things that i don't think make a that that were a hindrance to entrepreneurship is i think in corporate america there's a lot of bureaucracy accuracy where you know there's channels of communication and your ideas are don't matter my company as an idea merit where i wanna know exactly what all of my guys even from you know the lowest paying role up to the highest paying role what best ideas that they have that's something that i brought in because i felt like in corporate america my ideas didn't matter yeah you know you had the corporate direction and they had their quarterly initiatives and what you say yeah it doesn't matter but the best ideas that i've got in my company have come from my team when you i think that it's smart that i think that it's very smart that you work you make money you let that fund your business but if you know there is an exit how do you commit yourself to doing this thing if you if you eventually wanna get out of it because like there's like mental gymnastics there great question this was a tough win for me but i figured out a formula so for anybody that's looking to get out of their nine to five job all you need is these numbers right here you've got you need at least three to six month of liquidity for your business and your personal so you spend ten thousand dollars a month on your personal expenses and ten thousand dollars a month on your business you need at least sixty thousand dollars at least three month runway ideally six month so ideally you would have a hundred and twenty thousand if you're spending ten k and ten k yeah and then that's just to it's just to set you up for success and it gives you that safety and that yeah and then put a date on the calendar and honor that date yeah when was the moment because you were going you were working at indeed you're making over two hundred obviously you know you wanna do something bigger or this is not where you're gonna end up but what was the moment when you knew that you wanted to quit indeed and move on like what was the thing that was outside of the money in the bank because you just said we need so much money in the bank but what's the thing that you were that you experienced that you were like i'm i can't do this anymore i need to move on i knew before i even took the job that i was gonna leave that job so you were just you were just waiting do did you wait for traction in the wholesale business first yeah okay and that's i took the job knowing that i was going in there with that plan and i executed that plan and i got out as soon as possible correct i understand but where did that start it started being told when i can go to the bathroom in school yeah like i there's no way that i can take orders from somebody my entire like i listen to god that's my only boss and that's you know the natural entrepreneur right there a hundred percent well i i think so do you think that entrepreneurship can be learned or do you think some people are just born entrepreneurs i think that i was developed into entrepreneur i think that through life circumstances happening to me yeah it it pushed me there i felt like you through getting in trouble getting all all the your know stuff you go through growing up that's what ends up you have a a decision are you going to stay beating down and just take orders your whole life or you're gonna take personal accountability and responsibility now one path is gonna be much harder the entrepreneurship path is not for the faint heart is not for the week you're gonna have to ever overcome extreme adversity a ton of odds and you're gonna have to bet on yourself over and over and over fall seven times get up eight but it is the most rewarding path for those that got the heart to do it it's not easy i'm wonder if entrepreneur entrepreneurship is right for everyone it's not i don't think like i love my family but they're you know like my sister's a phd yeah and you know she's happy she's she's a a college professor making eighty grand a year and she's got her life and her and that's it she has no desire to wanna be an entrepreneur and i'm perfectly fine with that i think that happiness and fulfillment is the true measure of success when you were doing personal training because you were exposed to so many very like high net worth an ultra high net worth successful people do you find that more people have it right or wrong like those people did they have those five ass or did you see that most people just chase the money i would say more often than not the people that i would see there was a lot of imbalances in their life yeah now i met some extremely amazing people though that had it all all figured out and those were my mentors you know my early mentors in the day were the guys that i personal training and my first mentors the ceo of quiz subs for real yeah yeah so he's like he's pulling in several million dollars a year like he's very successful yeah but he's working on stop no not really he was you know he had it figured out he was you know silver fox like fifty years old super charismatic happy amazing relationships you know just had had it all and i was like i wanna be like that and so i emulate you know those guys in those early days because i came from nothing and so i almost had impostor syndrome when i was around them and that was how i ended up learning you know the ways was from just that exposure when you first started so you're working at indeed you know that you're gonna build a wholesale business you're sort of funding your business with your with your salary but you know that's where you're gonna end up you finally start to have some traction in the wholesale business and i know it didn't come easy like you mentioned just briefly but it's an important point to touch on you went through a hundred and four i think face to face rejections when you were building out this wholesale business over eleven months that to me is just it just shows you what it takes right that's what it takes to get anything off the ground is never gonna be easy it's gonna be a lot of just you know hand to hand combat what starts to work and also just for people that are into real estate why wholesale in particular as opposed to all the other kinds of real estate you can get involved like why are you sitting at home thinking personal trainer killing it out indeed now real estate wholesale like it's such like a a wide variety of like interest so what was about wholesale that made you wanna go into it that was so compelling well the majority of my clients that were doing really well were we're also big in real estate you know even if they owned a company they had some form of real estate going on their life and our you know read enough books say you know eighty percent a million come from real estate so i wanted to get in a real estate but i didn't know how i didn't have money i didn't have credit i didn't have a real estate license and none of that and so with whole you don't need money you don't need credit you don't need a real estate license i was like well i'm qualified hubspot a success story partner now think about listening to this podcast right now you're probably multitasking you're probably catching seventy to eighty percent of what we're talking about but let's flip that and imagine you're only catching twenty percent that'd be crazy right it's really not a good use of your time if you only remember twenty percent of what we're talking about but most businesses most entrepreneurs are only using twenty percent of their data all the most important details in call logs emails chat with their customers it's just left floating in digital space not being used hubspot it gives you the access to those insights to help you grow your business because when you know more you grow more visit hubspot dot com to get the full picture of your business today nets sweet is a success story partner now what is a feature hold for business if you ask nine experts will get ten answers bull market bear market rates are up rates are down at the end of the day it'd just be easier somebody invented a crystal ball but until then over forty three thousand businesses a future proof themselves with nets sweet by oracle in number one ai cloud erp that brings accounting financial management inventory and hr into one unified platform here's what i love about it instead of juggling multiple systems you get one source of truth real time insights and forecasting that actually let you peer into the future with actionable data when you're closing your books in days instead of weeks you're spending less time looking backwards and more time focusing on what's next whether your companies earning millions or hundreds of millions nets tweet helps you tackle immediate challenges while seizing your biggest opportunities if i needed this product in my business this is what i'd use it's a game changer for business visibility and control if you wanna see how ai can transform your financial operations download the cfo guide to ai and machine learning for free that's nets sweet dot com slash scott cla indeed is a success story partner now say you just realized your business needed to hire someone fast how can you find amazing candidate fast it's easy just use indeed when it comes to hiring indeed is all you need stop struggling to eat get your job posting seen on other job sites indeed sponsor jobs helps you stand out and hire faster and with sponsored jobs your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster and it makes a huge difference according to indeed data sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have forty five percent more applications than non sponsor jobs plus with indeed sponsor jobs there's no monthly subscription no long term contracts you only pay for results there's no need to wait any longer speed up your hiring right now with indeed and listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollar sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility just go to indeed dot com slash cla right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast indeed dot com slash cla terms and conditions apply if you're hiring indeed is all you need how did you keep going after failing failing i put that in air quotes but like getting a hundred and four face to face rejections like how do you push through that because that is what it takes to be successful so how do you push through that it was a lot i mean that summer when i was doing all those appointments i remember i had back surgery too so i had a big i had a big thing like going on with my back and i'm driving in a you know beat up mazda three with no ac all over the state of texas getting told no and about appointment seventy five that was like when i started to break and i get back to my apartment and i remember sitting there and i'm like you maybe this whole thing's a scam and all these people on youtube were just lying to me to try to sell me a course maybe it is real but i'm not cut out for this and they can do it but you i don't have the soft skills in order to be able to be successful in this you you i sort having all these limiting beliefs coming into my mind and i had sunk calls fallacy where i had already come so far so i was like i didn't come this far to only come this far i'm either going to get richer die ryan it was like i will be go homeless and yeah still be going on these appointments at this point had you quit indeed no this is when right right when i starting indeed oh okay so so indeed was like an insurance so to let you keep going did you have no more it yeah i had to take a job it's smart i mean some people would have too big an ego to take a job yeah you gotta let your ego go go and you have to say what do i gotta do to make this actually work so i had to swallow my pride and say i gotta take a job and i'm gonna not let this dream die and i'm gonna persist no matter whatever it takes until i figure it out and i will become the best at it and so that's that's what i did i just so seventy five a seventy five appointment you're starting to break i started to break and then i pulled it back together real quick i was like burn the ships yeah it's either this gonna kill me or i'm gonna figure it out figure it out what worked after under hundred and forty four rejections what did you learn or was it just literally just putting in you you know we're were talking before you're like oh the podcast is going well what's the secret it's like well thousand episodes forty fifty pieces of content a day you figure it out eventually like it's not it's not that hard it's not easy but you just figure it out you just fail forward and keep getting a little better every single time and you do that until it's almost it's unreasonable for you not to be successful the statistical probability it goes down so low that you end up becoming successful so one thing that really actually helped me was indeed because in that sales job i learned so much about sales and so the sales job was actually like the catalyst that ended up moving everything forward like i wasn't following up with these appointments and i learned that fortunes in the follow when i was in corporate america and so i went home and i was i gotta follow up with all these people and guess what ended up happening people started coming back around and next thing you know i got a deal and then it started the snowball from there and eventually you quit indeed you're all in on whole at that point and things are going you're making money off whole at this point when you actually quit and yeah was there a amount was there an amount of money that you would have liked to have hit before you left indeed like that was like the number like if i double my salary or something like i don't know what the number is but is there a number that people should shoot for that you shot for before you quit the the nine to five w two and go all in yeah i had six months of liquidity and so i knew that i was having a quarterly bonus hit on april fifteenth and when that quarterly bonus hit it would put me over that liquidity amount and that was the day that i quit so i waited until i refresh my bank app and the because you know in sales they kick you out the same day i know they do yeah i know i spent a lot of my career in sales i know in corporate well not corporate canada corporate america the same difference but yeah they don't they don't keep you around if you're done and also sometimes that is a pain in the ass to collect all those commission checks that are like doing in like six months if you leave so mh you just take whatever money you can get so as you're scaling the whole business i think that a lot of entrepreneurs when they first achieve success they may not think about how like that can impact other parts of their life so at what point did this whole sort of i don't even know how to describe it shit show with a woman that you were dating and you were common law married to in the state of texas at what point did this happened in your sort of entrepreneur journey because i don't think if somebody's making a lot of money and they're dating and they're not not married yet i think people are pretty aware of what happens if you get married but from what i understand you can tell me a little bit more you were common law and you lost a lot of your savings because you broke up but even though you weren't technically married in the state of texas you still owe her a lot of money if you're common law married i don't think many entrepreneurs would think about this when they're building they probably don't think about it at all no it is complete side yeah so you know give me a time frame for it too yep you know i'm working at indeed i'm doing really well there i'm you know also working in real estate in the evenings i'm making probably you know forty fifty thousand dollars a month in real estate i meet this girl we started dating she works at oracle she's in sales as well oracle did a massive round of layoffs she's actually good on the phone so while she was laid it off i said well hey just take some phone calls from me while i'm at indeed that'll actually be helpful you know i'll give you some commission on it till you find something else and relationship was was okay we dated for eleven months and around the eight month mark i was like just come stay over you know at my house it's fine you can work out you come all months then you think for months in yeah so long story short we go to cancun and i she's just a shit showdown down there i mean she's drinking taking xanax smoking weed and i was like i gotta cut this girl off so we get back to the united states and i was like alright well here's what i'm gonna do is i gotta a work trip coming up i'm gonna go ahead and break up with their teller just move out and you know be out by the time i'm gone i knew she would need some money in order to do it so i wayne got twelve thousand dollars from wells fargo cash went back home i say hey listen i gotta a roll for work i'm coming back on friday here's twelve thousand dollars just go you know get another apartment stay with your mom whatever you wanna do do it i had a bad a high rise apartment in downtown austin you know overlooking the water you know was making fifty grand a month you can afford some it was nice and she'd only been staying with me for maybe you know month and a half two months and i get back on friday i go straight to my office at indeed and about ten thirty in the morning the receptionist office managers like hey you've got a visitor up front it's some guy on a bike i was like i didn't order anything he's like nick perry i'm like yeah he's was like you've been served i'm like sir for what yeah and i go and i pull out these papers and i look at it and it's you call it's not even common it's like divorce papers i'm like divorce papers like this is bullshit like i don't know i am worried about it whatever long story short it was divorce papers and they had a restraining order which meant i couldn't go into my house i couldn't get my vehicles couldn't get a phone charger couldn't get a toothbrush couldn't get anything your own house yes she was very smart in the way that she is professional so she went and soon as i broke over there she retained an attorney who was her uncle i didn't know at the time that was working pro bon and this is what they did were like okay well we can get this guy for pretty much everything then here's exactly what we're gonna do we're gonna go ahead and file for a common law we're gonna go ahead and put it restraining anywhere the house is gonna be yours all his shit's gonna be yours and we'll get half of his money so i didn't think this was even a thing i'm like what do you mean so like i even tried to like go back there break get all my shit they called the cops i couldn't get my stuff and so ended up having to stay in my buddy's house and how is this a thing in texas there's no statute limitations for the amount of time that they stay there it's three consecutive nights they say there three consecutive nights if they get mail there your history they can say that your common law married are you serious yes that was my welcome to texas present i was like this is not yes i've never heard us in my life it's a old outdated law that just hasn't been changed and a judge doesn't call bullshit on this no so the evidence that they used was she lived in my house she got mail there because i had her working on the business she had access to the checking account yeah and said they're like well then what do you mean you guys are pretty much married you have joint finances that link she's on the business you know judge didn't wanna hear it and i didn't know that i was basically playing a losing game because she had a pro attorney i didn't know is her always he's she can you can fight forever yeah and i was like i'm just gonna fight this and you know i'm gonna outs spend and i'll be out of this in you know probably twenty is gonna be a twenty grand hang up no it was not a twenty grand hang but ended up costing me everything i lost the apartment all the brand new furniture the family of the apartment no it was just a lease but they they i i was on the hook for it i had to pay the entire lease even though you weren't living them yeah it was terrible so so long story short i ended up torch my checking account all the way down because i tried to fight it to the end yeah and but what would she have gotten if you didn't fight it well she got she would end up getting half of half of everything but that she wanted everything she wanna the business as well so i said that was the big contention she wanted to take my business that i started and i said no because that was the that was the value because i already had a bunch of contracts that were set up to close and so that's what they're coming after and i said no absolutely not so i fought for that i got that and she got and gave her all the possessions and i started over and then i just kept grinding and then bounced back like six months later and got that craziest story i've ever heard that's the chris i've never heard of that happening ever do you think this was do you think this was targeted do you think she was planning this ahead i think it was pre meditate i don't think that i think she always had in her back pocket that if i broke up whether her that's what she was gonna do she already had that plan so she thought you're super successful i'm gonna come out of this one way or another correct after this so now you're sort of starting from scratch you did you have to give the business to her or no no i kept the business i was like you can have all the cars all the least have it all but you're prime the business out of my cold dead hands then the judge let you keep the business yes so that was the compromise and so even though it's sucked going through it like i was still hustling like i'm still doing great at indeed i still got real estate deals that are coming through so like i wasn't like tripping too much i ended up getting an part another apartment and ended bouncing back like right away and just ended up you doing better than ever and it was it's just a lesson that cell there's was a lesson how did you create sort of like a virtual completely virtual workforce how did you sort of architect freedom into your business as you as you scale it so that you weren't just working non nonstop twenty four seven yeah so my business when i started it it was all in office it i replicated indeed essentially it was you know it was just like a wolf wall street boiler pit right yeah had a bunch of sales reps in there slay the phones and then i ended up building that up i put a ceo in charge and i i left and i traveled the world up into all seven continents and then when i moved to arizona i moved it from mexico back to the states to take my real estate business further than anybody's ever taken a real estate business before i was complacent in cancun and i said i'm gonna take this to the next level on only way thirty six so i came back i opened an office i have the office in scottsdale yeah and my executives are in my office in scottsdale but the rest of my team is all remote so we have around forty people yeah and they all work in different parts of where the majority of them are actually in south africa because south africans are phenomenal at sales they have british accent and and it like it it also like you get really great talent it reduces your costs as well you have all virtual yeah when you build so talk to me about sort like the nuance or like the specifics of wholesale like what makes somebody successful at wholesale like what makes you successful at whole because i know that a lot of people try and go into it and they're not successful and they burn out or even if they put a couple years into it like they're just they're not making a ton of money with it so what makes you different the reason ninety percent of wholesaler fail is they can't get consistent reliable high quality marketing going they're bouncing from one marketing channel to another and nothing is really working for them marketing is the biggest hang up so i've got ninety nine problems but a lead a one my my business has always been blessed with good marketing yeah i master google paper click pretty early yeah and that was one of the best things i did do you see that marketing has changed a lot since like now with chat like do you have to change your strategy significantly to to still get leads or no i mean google still crush even right now in two thousand and twenty five we're we're recording this but alphabet has completely cannibal their entire strategy so google for the history of the internet they have monetized through clicks right you google something and then you click on a a sponsored ad well they've gone completely away from that they're going to a model where if you google something now you see the ai summary i know yeah yeah that's cannibal their business model so how are they going to capture revenue for the first time in twenty two years google declined on cert searches because everything going to chat e and complexity and things like that so now they are putting the majority of their their stock into other campaign types so google owns youtube we advertise heavily on youtube google also owns like a million other sites as well so you can monetize across a ton of their other sites so performance max demand gen campaigns those are where we get the majority of our leads we still do phenomenal in search yeah but search is dying i don't think search will last another five years so that's like your website and like like seo on your website you don't think that's gonna stick around no i think degree no i don't see that being a long term thing and so that is going to shift into you know ai yeah you know and with all like ai snippets has it changed your ppc strategy at all or no no our ppc strategy has remained the same we still do search campaigns we advertise heavily on youtube we take advantage of google performance max and demand gen campaigns and that's still the majority of our leads that's the majority of your leads and then it's not like those are keywords that are too expensive to bid on even in twenty twenty five no because the way that i market is different than everybody else so the majority of wholesaler will pick a market like miami florida yeah atlanta georgia fill in the blank and they will go in bid on those expensive keywords we buy houses sell house fast etcetera and they're paying fifty hundred dollars a click which is insane you know they're paying three four five hundred dollars a lead and it's not sustainable so i made a contra bet about nine or ten years ago because i did something that i found completely changed everything was if you market in metropolitan areas in small cities and things like that your cost per click is through the roof if you just expand the geographical targeting to the national it drops your cost per click by like ninety five you know ninety eight percent wow but then where are you getting your you're getting your customers outside of major metropolitan areas correct the majority of all the money that i make are in towns that you'll never hear of and no one else does this strategy well they do now i've been able to capture some market with it yeah i've captured a lot of market i made my career in that so at this point you know everybody's you know followed what i've done i kinda pioneered that in our industry i've coached over nine hundred and fifty other real estate business i've created over a hundred million through you know what we do you know worried about coaching your own income competition i have an abundance mindset and so i feel that you know that is i've i'm always out a little bit further ahead too the hubspot podcast network is a success story partner now a quick podcast recommendation i've been listening the truth lies and work they're in the hubspot podcast network just like success story it's this husband and wife team a and lia elliott they break down why people actually do what they do at work so if you have a business if you manage people if you have to hire people at any you have to listen to their show i just listened to an episode on why good employees suddenly quit that's an issue that we all have and it totally clicked for me one of the reasons i explained is why it's not usually about the money it's about all these little promises that we as founders entrepreneurs managers leaders we break without realizing it like when you tell someone you just hired that they're gonna learn all these new skills but you just keep giving them the same tasks over and over and over again it made me realize that i probably lost a lot of good people for dumb reasons 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sessions where you can immediately implement what you learn and plus san francisco legendary startup up ecosystem provides the perfect backdrop for networking with all these great entrepreneurs decision makers industry leaders peers who are actively shaping the future of business from september third to fifth at the moscow center you're gonna be surrounded by forward thinking professionals who turn insights and ideas into breakthroughs don't just watch the future unfold be part of creating it visit inbound dot com slash register to get your ticket today what's like the next thing that's working well because you obviously take contra bets you obviously sort of market a little bit different than everyone else so what are you trying now that seems to be working yeah right now i mean mixing up the geographical targeting so i used to just do where i would do blanket a nation than i did states now i do i go based on the data for real estate so i think a lot of people they get married to a certain state or a certain market that's the wrong way of looking at it if you are in real estate you market based on the data so i actually market to the counties that have the highest pending percentage that means there's a hundred houses is sitting on the market yeah i wanna see what what counties have the highest amount going pending quick that's your demand what does that mean going pending if you put a house on the you say you go to sell your house with the realtor yeah when a buyer signs you sign a contract with a buyer and it's getting ready to close it goes pending yeah yeah yeah that's that's a signal that there's demand for that house right understood okay so if there's a hundred houses on the market and only ten of them are pending that's not a good sign that means there's no demand on that market if there's sixty of them that have gone pending you know that that you know anything you put up is gonna fly so you can see that that's all public information too you can find that data yes and so most people are getting stuck in these areas i'm changing my marketing out every single month to what is the hottest essentially i'm just day trading houses i don't care where they are i just care about the statistics do you have a similar strategy for the other side because wholesale means you need buyers too or are you just selling the leads i've completely gone away from wholesale as we know it wholesale as most people know it is pretty much dead in two thousand and twenty five the traditional model of wholesale is you get an off market property from a seller and then you find an investor that wants to buy it for a markup that's that's a dead way of doing business the way that you're gonna make the most amount of money in the least amount of time with the least amount of headache is you do the same strategy get an off market property from a seller but rather than sell it to an investor for a slight markup you sell it on the retail market to an end user a family that wants to move into the house for a hundred percent of full value and through what's called a innovation a innovation basically means it's just a set of paperwork that allows you to do that so our entire business model has shifted to do that and is that also sort of sort of not what most people are doing most people still trying to sell to investors yeah i mean i've been able to i've bank swing the entire real estate investing yeah market to do that now and most people have followed what we've what we see it they see it's working it's correct working yeah correct it's just interesting how people get so married to the way it's always been and they never they never modernize their business and that's like the death of a business like when you never change when you when you say like this is the way it's always been done mh i mean i'm always looking for ways that we can reinvent ourselves how can we you know rapidly adopt artificial intelligence or systems and processes and stay ahead of marketing as an entrepreneur you gotta be looking out ahead and and and making this r and d bets and yeah with a lot of entrepreneurs i think also a lot of real estate people they seem to do a little bit of everything seem to diversify all their efforts and energy you are the opposite you're always like laser focused on one strategy one market one opportunity at a time you feel like that's the best way to really like be successful a hundred percent biggest reason that i see most people fail is shiny object syndrome yeah know they'll do something for three months six months maybe a year or two and then they jump into the next thing yeah and that is suicide i think it takes years in order to be a true master at anything especially in real estate even just real estate like is a very broad topic yeah we could talk about wholesale we could talk about subject to we could talk about airbnb commercial like they it just branches out yeah you have to stay laser focused and i would rather be you know a master at one thing than a jack of all trades and that's where you that's what that's what you do so you just focus on the one thing you do it you know ten thousand times and eventually you'll figure it out and i don't care how green the grass looks on the other side i'm staying my lane when you started you were looking for freedom fulfillment now you can travel anywhere have you ever thought of like how you take to the next level exit have you thought about that that's exactly what i'm working on now that's why i moved from mexico back to the united states was to be able to create a large enough real estate investment company to be able to sell off the private equity nobody has really been able to successfully sell a wholesale company really that's so surprising to me because private equity buys like everything once so guess a certain revenue the majority of wholesale and companies are too small they have key man risk their systems and processes are not streamlined they don't have high enough profit margins and it's just not appetizing to most pe companies you know for in order to get a decent multiple you need to be over like five million in eb yeah so once you're over five million in eb everything's system process then it starts to you be able to be sell are you doing that are you still doing that with a completely remote team yeah yeah all completely remote and one cool thing that i've also done is i'm doing it with my company but then i'm also partnering with a lot of my students as well so i have a coaching and mentorship program and the guys that are crushing it in my mentorship program will actually i'll bring them up and say listen don't pay me anymore for mentorship we're gonna do this together and i'll come into their business help them streamline everything and then we'll participate in the upside together so it's like you're almost like doing a little bit of your own roll up doing a roll up yeah you're building your own companies to roll up into something that private equity got it's very smart and that's the so are you gonna do roll up and then eventually exit out roll up and then exit out yep i think that a lot of entrepreneurs they don't think of the exit plan and they don't know where they wanna take it they just started it it's growing and then they're like okay do i pass it on to my kids do i like do i sell to private equity and i think that like having a good exit plan is probably one of the most important things just so like you have this direction that you're taking the business enough direction you don't know where you're gonna go with it no to me it's still a stepping stone yeah i still see that it's a small opportunity for you know if i could sell that this company right now for you know eighty to hundred million dollars like then that gives me some seed money to go play in a real capital now yeah so let's talk about sales for a second because sales is as we mentioned before one of the most important things in entrepreneur can learn how to do obviously it sort of major careers it's it's major business it's it's it's something that i think is one of the most important skills you learned it out indeed it helped build the whole business just give me sort of an idea of what you look for when you're training somebody on how to sell like what's the what's the skill set that an entrepreneur has to learn to be able to sell well who does be a good salesman i mean when i'm looking for guys that are on my team that can sell i wanna i wanna see body count i wanna see that they can pull girls if they can pull girls then they can usually sell that's that's one so i'll look at their facebook or their you know social media if they've got a hot girlfriend that's usually a plus is that true yes it's it's translates in high ticket sales it translates extremely well into how well somebody's gonna do number two i wanna see a successful track record i don't hire entry level salespeople people and i think that when i say successful track record it's not only in job but it's it's the other areas in life how do they treat you know themselves their their fitness their faith all the other areas and then can they hold a you know good conversation yeah that's extremely important when you close deals you contact the leads eighteen times in seventy two hours so this is a very very i don't know i would say aggressive to a degree approach but it works why does why do you need this amount of volume when you're contacting somebody and trying to close this is not just a real estate thing i'm assuming i'm assuming that there's parts of your sales strategy that you picked up from indeed you picked up from years of whole eighteen touch points for the average person would seem a lot who isn't in sales why does that work yeah it's like the first forty eight when somebody gets kidnapped you know after that it that goes cold right yeah it turns into a cold case so you've really got this first seventy two hours to get in touch with that lead or just forget it like it's gonna go into a long term follow ups sequence yeah so the mechanics that we do it's three calls a day three text today three emails a day for the first three days and that it's eighteen touch points eighteen touch points and what do you know the percentage of closing in the first seventy two hours when you do that versus when you don't it's it's through the roof i can give you an exact percentage but it's it's it's like night day night and day you have to have speed the lead especially with inbound online leads they're contacting your competitors and they're just waiting for the first person to call them so you've gotta be on it immediately and then steaks in stalker mode for those first three days how do you know how do you know when to like shut down the relationship like there's a point where persistence well to some people they would describe it as harassment but i wouldn't even say that i would say that there's actually it's just a waste of your time after a certain point if you're going on and you're commenting this so much like there has to be a point where you disqualify the lead as well correct yeah so we will hit them for this first eighteen times and seventy two hours and then they'll go on a longer term follow ups sequence where we'll have an automated follow ups sequence that goes out to them we're still calling like once a day but it doesn't get as aggressive like i said this first three days or the most when you have to hit them and this is a this is sales across the board with any product on with any product any service what do people screw up the most in sales what do they get wrong i think that right now in two thousand and twenty five when we're recording this people don't understand that iphones completely changed the game now yeah so if you've looked at your text message is it summarizes your text message on there and so you need to know what to saying a text message so you don't end up just getting tuned out and blocked by somebody number two most people have their phone on d and d and so you need to hit them three times just in order to get it to break through the d so most people know like in sales double dial somebody they'll get on but if their phone's on d d which most people's is mine is yeah always then the first ring it's gonna go straight to voice mail the second ring it might go through but the third time it'll actually punch through and you it'll it'll you ring it'll actually ring when you're just onboarding somebody you mentioned like sort of these are the prerequisites they have to be able to you know sell themselves be able to have a good conversation what's the training to get somebody up to speed on sales is it just dialing and just facing rejection after rejection no no so we've adopted artificial intelligence into our training process where we have a software that will actually role play with the new hire and we've created different personas for the ai and they can go back and forth and just get beat up by ai until they score a certain score on the ai and then we have multiple different personas they have to graduate through so it saves us a phenomenal amount of time and it doesn't burn leads doesn't burn leads it doesn't take resources and time for my internal leadership team yeah in order to do it so that's been a game changer is doing ai role play in addition to that we have a a a course that we put them through and then we have a you know sequence of of different trainings that we do in order to onboard them in that first week so if i hire hire somebody on a monday usually they're on the phones by thursday friday how do you when you're when you're onboarding a new salesperson and i say like onboarding a new salesperson some of the audience sell themselves and some of the audience they're founders and they're selling themselves so this question applies to somebody who is hiring a salesperson or somebody who's selling themselves how do you maintain the energy as a salesperson after tons of rejection now i know that you're not training them with real people but for the long time that's how you train sales reps you didn't have ai how do you get somebody to like be excited after a hundred rejections or after not closing the deal for the first two months because maybe you're gonna say they're not right for sales i don't know but there has to be something that keeps them going because there's gonna be a lot of rejection and i think that that rejection is what screws up more founders than anything that's what stops them from being able to sell yeah it's massive belief in the product or service that you are offering in order to be able to help your your client yeah and then massive belief in yourself as well so if you don't have those things you better go find it or you're gonna end up starting to fail yeah so if you start to see that your energy is waning you're dip in you're feeling like you're going downhill yeah audit okay do i really believe in what i'm offering if you don't you better go in and find that you have to find that belief yeah you can't you can't sell if you don't believe in what you're offering right and if you don't believe in yourself a lot of it's in between your ears so sales is you know a mental game but what is it's a mental game so like you mentioned if you don't have belief in the product that's one thing you can go learn about the product you can research it better you can understand how it actually adds value to the custom summer but belief in yourself this something that people struggle with and i've been asked us a lot and i have an answer but i know if it's the best answer people always ask like when you have impostor syndrome how do you overcome that because it's like a chicken and egg scenario for a lot of people they have impostor syndrome so they don't take action because they don't take action they don't have a proof point that they can be successful so they sort of hold on to the impostor or syndrome so this is a great question so i'm gonna i'm gonna play out a scenario for you okay so you've got you and me alright you're a stud you're confident you've got it all together me i'm a little shaky we go when we show up on the job day one we have the same script we do the same training the same role play you go in and you start crushing deals right out of the gate and i'm i'm sucking i'm bombing why is it we had the same training we had the same script but what was different between you and me the difference was that you had the internal fort two and where is that where's that confidence in fort two built from it's built from honoring the promises that you make to yourself it's because when you said you're gonna go work out in the morning you got yourself in there and you worked out and you gave it a hundred and ten percent when you said you're gonna make your bed you made that bed and it was tight right you do the things that you say you're gonna do every time you honor the promises that you say you're gonna make to yourself you get a little bit more confident anytime that you don't you end up becoming less confident you go out you say you're gonna follow a diet than you're out eating the cheeseburger become a little less confident so it's just from honoring the promise you make to here so i love that so it's not even about success at work it's about success everywhere else in your life yeah it it all comes together it all it's all one that's why i believe that working out being strict with your diet with your health with your wellness with all the other things in your life i think that that compounds the business success i couldn't agree more at all is the same what are the things that hurt a salesperson or an entrepreneur the most like the it could be limiting beliefs it could be self sabotage like what's the mindset that is actually detrimental to your success vice you know drugs alcohol junk food pornography like do you fill in the blank all those things will take you down at black hole social media yeah right so if you find somebody going down those past it's to slippery slope to poverty you know patrick bed david yes one of his favorite quotes i love is that if you don't have god in a traditional sense then something else will become your god so if you don't have god like and you don't sort of subscribe to something that's bigger than you then it could be work it could be drugs it could be women porn gambling there's gonna be some other vice that becomes your god that you really become like a slave to and i think that that's where i that's where a lot of people don't realize how damaging some of these habits are because it's not like they don't look at some of these habits as life running and nobody nobody watches porn and things is gonna ruin your life but because of the dopamine release that you get from a lot of these activities it's very easy to like start to let it take over your life and become the god quote unquote in your life and then distract you from what actually matters and i i think that that's probably listen i think that's probably where a lot of people let themselves go and they as a like because then it takes up time right it takes a time if you're addicted to drinking and gambling and porn like even if you are a hard worker even if you are focused when you're working like you have two three four five whatever amount of hours less per week to focus on the thing that could actually move the needle in your life or in new relationship was not even the time is the energy as well yes a hundred percent a hundred percent because it's it for sure there's that actual time but yeah the energy because if you like listen if you're like like if you're drinking three nights a week like i'm thirty five my hangover is last two days now so like that's forty eight hours of less than productive right if you are like if you are spending more time drinking or watching porn then you know going on a date night with your wife i mean compounded over a couple years is your relationship not gonna be so good hundred percent everybody that's watching this needs to go read the book napoleon hill out waiting the devil the devil placed these kinda of tricks on you and it's called drifting so what you see is like it's seemingly insignificant like you know what's you know vape gonna do or i'm just gonna go play blackjack jack you know on my phone then you know what happens is like you said that becomes your god and it's not so much about the time it's that your mental energy is looking over here when you should be focused here and you're constantly getting pulled by these devices into a direction that you don't wanna go and then a year later you don't even recognize yourself and you didn't accomplish your goals because your body so when you do these things there's like a dopamine there's some sort of like hormone release and your body crave that and it's like well i could be doing like this over here which is important but boring and no dopamine release or i i i know i i know that if i go play blackjack for like thirty minutes there is a dopamine release why social media so bad no constant dopamine it's worse than alcohol as they've done stuff percentages it is it's totally addictive so i mean i catch myself doing it now and i'm like aware of it i try and only use social media for business i try and post i try to not just scroll but i mean like like every human you get you get sucked into it and i'll be bored and boredom is good because boredom means you can think and boredom means you can sit with your thoughts and boredom means you can be creative like you don't always wanna be on a hundred percent working away right you wanna breathe a little bit it's important but i'll be bored and instead of taking a second and like breathing and taking a second right you're immediately boom exactly because my brain's like oh well i'm sure that brainstorming where my business is gonna go is useful but i also like to dopamine so let me just fuck around on tiktok and i does nothing for you right but again you do that every time you have a down you know a down thirty minutes there goes your life but you don't think about it like that i've never i've never heard of that napoleon hill book i everyone knows like thinking grow rich but i've never heard of this one out winning the devil is even better than thinking very rich what are some other we've sort of spoken about okay so biggest things that distract entrepreneurs biggest things that will make them successful what are the most important lessons that you've learned over your career that you would hope to somebody who's just starting out would learn or i would even say what is the most painful lesson that you've learned that you hope nobody else would ever have to learn but it was a useful lesson for you most important lesson that i learned growing up was do not take advice from people that are not early where you wanna be so my entire you know childhood adolescence you know i was controlled by you know parents teachers you know had to do what i was told and i realized none of these people really had it figured out and everything that they were doing was out of love yeah but it was leading me nowhere so the ones that are closest to you your friends your family that have good intentions for you does not mean that you should listen to them if they are not where you wanna be financially spiritually mentally fill it in the blank do not take advice from them you have to distance them so that was a very hard lesson that i learned in my adolescence i had to go and un wire all of that stuff in the way that i un uncovered it was i would literally brain myself with personal development youtube and i pushed away friends family everything and kinda isolated it for so you like did like a hard reset on your belief system i had to yeah that was my only way out or i would i would have been a you know been working at nine to five probably still in northern virginia claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under unprepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles that nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources but my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for claude today and get fifty percent off quad pro when you use my link cloud dot ai slash success sports injuries test you your mind your body and spirit others transform you elevating you to a stronger bolder version of yourself at summit orthopedic our experts are prepared for both for every challenge for every comeback because you deserve nothing less than the best live life at your summit with summit orthopedic summit ortho dot com

in this lessons episode discover how the four disciplines of execution help leaders turn strategy into action and focus on what truly drives results learn how to overcome uncertainty and urgency that block progress understand why clarity and leverage determine successful outcomes and explore how accountability and focus to sustain long term performance in any organization so let's let's let's queue up the the four disciplines and what they're actually so four disciplines are four disciplines that are focused on executing executing in a business context in a leadership context this is obviously what the you know this is the book that you just re released right today today is actually the today actually today we're recording it on today tuesday april twentieth yeah so congratulations that's exciting it's very exciting so actually so what's what's the what's the re release about like if people have already checked out this book what is the re release and then i actually wanna go into some of the more tactical stuff but i'm just curious what's the yeah yeah so the the if if you're familiar with four disciplines the the re release about thirty percent new content really a lot of focus on where to use this approach and wear not to use this approach okay this is not you know vitamin c this is not good for what ai you this is heavy medicine right and and where do leaders apply these disciplines and where not to how do leaders of leaders we go into much more detail on how organizational leaders apply this we do a lot with leaders that are finding themselves managing projects and they're not project managers how do you apply the disciplines to a project going instead of a of of a performance type goal and then finally sustainability a lot of organizations have been at this for almost a decade how do you keep it fresh how do you keep it alive so those are kind of i guess the headlines or the highlights of how of what's new in the second edition and there there's valid points because i can i can tell you from personal experience the the leaders of leader's point is something that nobody really nobody nobody learns in school it's the very difficult thing it's one of the most difficult things to figure out and then also just the project management piece when again another leader of leaders things when you're managing tasks that if you're in sales and you love selling and you move into sales manager and you move into director sales and you move into vp sales well now you have to manage projects and now and actually that's one of the reasons why some people don't like those executive roles because there's a lot of leaders of leadership type requirements and there's a lot of project management type requirements that is so far from the actual act right yep anyway anyways good good advice some i'm glad you said that about leaders of leaders i'm glad that note because the one of the c authors of the book jim hu and i are actually starting right now we had the same thought you did we're starting right now another work on leading leaders and we don't know if that's the name of the book it's a damn name here's on this and we we we we had to cut this chapter short we had so much on this topic and and we we had to say scott we said the same thing you did there's not a lot out there there's a lot on leadership in a general sense but in terms of the specific dynamics of when you're a leader and you have to lead another leader that is not at least at least we've not seen a great deal on those unique dynamics so that is something that we're looking at right now it's a good it's a good topic and i know that the the audience here some of them everybody here is career focused trying to build something themselves so i would just say if you aren't leading leaders right now regardless of whether or not you're starting a side hustle building something you're an entrepreneur and you wanna build something in an organization there will be a point where this will be applicable in your i mean i be today right but figure it out so you don't have to go through hell and trial by fire when you're actually living it and anyway so let's you're gonna to get this we'll need to reward of success exactly exactly we will be leading leaders that's right that's exactly yeah okay so we're trying to remove ambiguity we're trying to take on task to ambiguity so that everything clear everything is comforting we see the end result we see the vision so first of all how do we do that and then how do we apply savings for principles to executing when we have that clear vision so first how do we get rid of that ambiguity yeah so let's do this let's let's put up sort of two obstacles and then let's maybe walk through the disciplines so the one obstacle is it's not that people we think this but it's not that people necessarily resist change we think people resist change because it looks like they're resisting change a lot what they resist is uncertainty people initiate change quite a bit so it's it's really unfair to say that it's a human dynamic to resist change what people resist is the uncertainty that often comes with change k so if you said uncertainty is sort of one issue and then the the here's the second issue that gets in the way of execution and it's it's urgency it took us a long time to sort of see this this was hiding in plain sight that any goal that you're trying to achieve any strategic priority anything that's really important will always compete with the day job and we've given the day job a nickname called the whirlwind right so this day job this whirlwind always feels urgent media oh i've gotta get back to someone and so oh i promise might have that done oh i've gotta do this oh i've still got seven unanswered emails oh oh oh right and so we're working all day long and you can live in the whirlwind and not move on anything strategic and and here's the other problem in the moment when a human being is confronted with a choice between something that's happening right now or spending energy on something far more important but less urgent the human default does not go to importance the human default goes to urgency this is the great barrier to strategic execution we're not wired for it we are wired for i media so you think about those two factors this this resistance to uncertainty and this this whirlwind of urgency that we have to execute through so if you just thinking of those two things and then the what are the what are the four disciplines alright well the first one is called discipline one's called focus on the wildly important and it's a decision that a that a leader or an entrepreneur or a professional person makes when they say i am going to give something disproportionate energy i'm not gonna ignore doesn't it mean i gotta ignore everything else everything else can go into whirlwind but something's going to get disproportionate energy and i'm gonna and i'm and and not only am i gonna narrow the focus but i'm gonna it's a little bit like focusing a camera i'm gonna bring it into focus i'm gonna give it a starting line i'm gonna give it a finish line i'm gonna give it a deadline and there's a whole science around how you do that an organizational setting and how you do that between levels but that's what the first discipline is all about it the first discipline is all about targeting getting really clear on well let me let me give you a quote i really like this this this was something that was said to us twenty years ago by the gentleman who's now the president of chick f a he was vp of operations at the time his name is tim t sop and he said when i meet with a leader and so you got one of the you got one of the planets really good operators right he said when i meet with a leader the first thing i wanna know where is that leader putting disproportionate focus this where are they spending like i don't wanna know your seven priorities i i wanna know number one i wanna know what's your big bet what's you play right now otherwise i know if they don't have that they're on the defensive they're they're just they're just trying to putting on fires right they're put out fires they just wanna get through the week right and he says it really helps me know where a leader's head is and we and i think that little statement started to influence the way we use the discipline so i got discipline one is about what i'm going after discipline two is called act on the lead measures so if discipline one is about the principle of focus discipline two is the principle of leverage it basically says look i've just i've just identified something that by definition i can't move otherwise i wouldn't have identified i've i've just deliberately picked this really important thing that's really hard and so if you think about a rock that's too heavy to move yeah and then you picture a lever you can get a fu crumb you get a lever under there right and you know what are the characteristics of a lever well a lever unlike the rock you can move it the lever is influence and when the lever moves the rock moves so the levers predictive and so for twenty years we have been our had our heads into this idea of where the leverage k so the classic example that everybody gets his weight loss so people know okay if losing weight is the heavy rock i've just not been able to accomplish right diet and exercise really are the lever right i could act i don't always act on it but i can right and they're predictive if i stay with it it works right we we don't believe it works but it works right so so it's predictive and influence what we found is that in every field of human endeavor if you can get the targets low enough down to where the work is happening you can find leverage points you can find what we call lead measures now a so a lead measure predictive and influence not the same as a predictive indicator just one little distinction on this if i was trying to grow corn right and crop production was my wildly important goal that's what we call the targets and disciplined one we call them wig or wildly important goals my wiley important goal or my lag measure right was crop growth like similar to weight loss a predictive indicator of crop growth would be rainfall right we have we have a lot of rainfall we're gonna have a good crop growth okay well you can't control it can't get very good scott right it's predicting but at eight influence right lead measures are not predictive indicators lead measures are true leverage their influence and their predictive alright so so getting so you might have an organization with eight nine different teams each team we we really limit you to one wildly important goal per team per work group at a time this is what we found people get handled the day job plus one alright so they got one week that team has been very involved in creating the lead measures disciplined three now it's called keep a compelling score board and it's really about for me it's about throwing the game on switch like that's a that to me that's a that's a tangible it's a binary switch when someone goes alright it's live game on right and i engage and the hypothesis that you've created a discipline one in discipline too doesn't put it in motion but the minute you go game on and for us that's bit a score so we we have an app four x o s that we've got over a half a million people on right now utilizing and and in very simple terms it's not like it's not like a business score board it's not like a spreadsheet it's not like like a coach we we think of it this way it's not a coach score board you you need those you have those this is a players score board okay so if you think about the score board at any athletic event it's much more like that than it is the spreadsheet they hand the coach at halftime time so that's discipline three does the can we take what we did in disciplines one and two and can we make it go game on and the discipline for is create a cadence of accountability and that is every week right every team that owns a score board each individual making commitments and then reporting the next week like in addition to the hundred things i gotta do this week what's the one or two things that are gonna ensure we do the lead measures like if my lead measures are diet and exercise right what would a commitment be we'll do diet and exercise no we know that my commitment might be it's gonna rain next week i'm gonna get that gym membership because i hate running in the rain or i'm gonna go to whole foods because i've got these recipes but i don't have the ingredients right and i've gotta rick i've got right i wanna make sure that i'm not eating junk and then i'm hitting that calorie lead measure so discipline one get the focus discipline put two get the leverage discipline three game on and then discipline four if you've ever heard the adage force against leverage that's right that's applying that force so what we found is by doing that we're able to drive activities into an otherwise schedule of urgency and do it in a way that it doesn't feel overwhelming to people where they're like i don't even know where to start thanks for tuning in if you found this valuable don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode and if you wanna dive deeper into this conversation check out the links in the description to watch the full episode see you in the next one claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under prepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you don't know what claude is claude is the ai for mines that don't stop at good enough it is the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you not for you whether or not you're debugging code at midnight or you're strat your next business move claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter i feed claude my guest articles before i do a podcast i feed it their company updates past interviews and it helps me spot the angles that nobody else is talking about last week claude research capabilities pulled together insights from over thirty sources about my guests industry and it helped me ask questions that always make them say great question nobody's ever asked me that before claude is by far the most useful tool to grow any business any podcast and really just help you extend your thinking on whatever it is you're working on if you're ready to tackle bigger problem sign up for claude today and get fifty percent off quad pro when you use my link cloud dot ai slash success

indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from indeed seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at a four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that use ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need companies using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform choosing if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed build for what's now and what's next in tech hiring in this lessons episode uncover why authentic communication is the core of effective sales learn how to replace scripted pitches with credibility driven language that builds trust explore science backed tactics for discovery objections and negotiation that engage both emotion and logic and understand how empathy and tone can turn any interaction into genuine connect and lasting conversion good it's a good thing to know a good point that regardless of the sales strategy or or whatever you subscribe to if it's spin or challenger or i don't there's a there's a million and one different things that different organizations use miller h like a whole bunch of different types right this underlies all of them this this this could or can be added onto to because if it's how to use tone and how to i would say be more human and more authentic in your approach and be more i don't know more confident in your approach and and i'm sure that i'm using very general words and you can probably go a little bit deeper on how this actually manifests and when a rep uses it this can be implemented in line with any sales strategy because it's it's not it's not a different strategy it's it's something that you have to add on correct correct it's it's very foundational it's very human feeling now there are a lot of tactics we talk about messaging tactics discovery tactics you know objection handling negotiation and so on but like for example people are familiar with like bands or mimic you know people have these discovery methodologies where they say hey look scott when you go into the call with the customer like here's the list of of things that you need to come out with and then what happens is we get too t to like those lists and we say so scott like what's your budget you're you say oh i don't know we haven't said it and they're like okay awesome so who's gonna sign this thing and you're like i don't know maybe my boss i'm like okay great and when do you need this buy and and your customers can feel that you're it's like a polite interrogation that you're just working down a checklist it does not feel human and so when you mean we talk about tactics it's about using tactics that you can execute with passion conviction they're not all easy to execute by any stretch right but that's the whole idea behind sales and thinking person profession you really have to unpack it some of them are easy but yes manifesting the emotion the conviction using words like you know even just like a very simple thing when you have a lot of let's say young sales reps and they go and talk to customer and they say well you know scott like what i think and what i've what i've seen and scott's they're thinking like who the hell is this kid what i mean yeah it's you've seen nothing anything k like you're not o'brien like you're not bill gates like you've seen nothing so you know one of the the tactics i talk about and this just a small little thing i i i call the eye freezing trap where we start saying well i've seen and i found and like no one cares what you think so i i say well who has credit if you don't have credibility who does your customers have credibility third party you know articles and studies and reputable journals have credibility the collective experience of your company has credibility so i say shift your eye phrasing to we phrasing and invoke the credibility of the entities that have it so i you know what what we found like we've been in business for ten years and what we found working with tons of customers like you is and you can use that on day one of your job right you just have to execute it with passion and conviction and there's lots of ways to do that but just like these little tweaks to your rep repertoire can make you feel completely different but how you execute that sales motion and when you feel completely different your customers can feel too and it's very powerful from a conversion perspective indeed is a success story partner now here's your tech hiring tip of the week from seventy three percent of tech workers say flexibility is one of their top priorities so if your job posting doesn't mention flexible hours or remote options you're basically invisible to three at of four candidates keep that in mind look hiring tech talent right now it's tough you are competing for people with super specific skills everyone wants hybrid work and the salary expectations are through the roof it's a lot that's why indeed actually makes sense they're the number one place where tech people go to apply for jobs we're talking three million tech professionals in the us and eighty six percent of them have applied through indeed it's not just some job board where you post and pray they've got tools like smart searching and their tech network that uses ai to connect you with people who actually have the skills that you need company using the tech network saw over four times more relevant applications that's huge more qualified people way less time wasted whenever i've needed tech talent in the past indeed is the only platform i choose if i needed to hire top tier tech talent today i'd still go with indeed post your first job and get seventy five dollars off at indeed dot com slash tech talent that's indeed dot com slash tech talent to claim this offer indeed build for what's now and what's next tech hiring in cognate is a success story partner now have you ever wondered how all those scammers get your phone numbers all those tele marketers how you're always drowning in all these spam calls it's data brokers right now hundreds of companies are collecting and selling your personal information without your consent your address your phone number even your family members names to anyone is willing to pay and this puts you at risk of identity theft scams and harassment and that's wherein cog comes in they contact over two hundred and thirty data broker on your behalf and legally force them to delete your personal information no more spending hundreds of hours doing it yourself and cog handles all the pay work follows up on objections and keep your data off the market with repeated removal i've actually been using incognito myself it's scary and also incredible to see how much of my data was out there but they get rid of it they've got a thirty day money back guarantee so you can try at risk free use my code success adding cog dot com slash success to get an exclusive sixty percent off their annual plans you have to take back control of your privacy today so let's break down what the current modern day iteration of cerebral selling is because now you have a book out you have a course that's been broken down into so i'm pretty sure six different components what is what is the the full complete cerebral selling when you train it when you when you teach somebody how to sell this way well you know it's funny like when you start a business like like mine when you're focused on training it's not just about the content because there's lots of great content out there i i all often times we'll we'll focus just as much on the delivery mechanism and the retention right because people forget and and actually as a consumer of sales training over the years where the sales trainer comes in and does it the the thing for two days you you forget most of it this has been been proven out so what i do is i focus on a particular topic like messaging you know and and we we focus on that and then you know i leave you to execute those tactics in the field for two three weeks before i come back and i i teach you something else so we focus on the fundamentals messaging discovery objection handling negotiation leadership focus and and in each case we focus on like science based tactics executed with the right empathy and tone and you know it's especially relevant now when you think about like the current buying climate you know whatever it is you say you do there's a million people that will say the same thing at least in the you know now you think you're this delicate snowflake and you're unique from everyone else and maybe you are but to your customers you just all all sound the same so no one really cares what it is you do and a lot of times when i say so scott what do you do and you're like oh we're a platform to like no one cares about your stupid platform and i'm saying that the best possibly no one cares about your platform k like people walk around caring about their problems and their lives and not even like features and benefits right so speaking the language of like pain and like for example if you say like so david like what do you do with cerebral selling yeah i can oh i'm it's a sales training and you know thought practice and i have a book and like then no one cares right so i said alec look i work with sales teams who realize that like people have to buy stuff but they hate talking to sales right and now you've had like a little mini epiphany of like oh yeah you know it's true i also hate talking to sales alright tell me more right so when you think about from a messaging perspective and it's not just having empathy for your customers but like really thinking like how does my customer's brain process this information when i give it to them so that i maximize my chances of creating interest and conversion later on down the road and and none of this is like this is all completely above board it's it's easy stuff it's stuff that you can execute with passion and conviction but that's that's how it breaks down in in every step messaging discovery objection handling there's all these like little tips and tricks that you can manifest you know i can give you more example i no i i think that so what i wanted to do so i saw there's messaging discovery objection handling negotiating leading for growth which i'm not sure what that actually means and then i don't know what that option mean but it sounds interesting and then it sounds great i like i like the copy it's great copy for for these for these little for these breakdowns and then mindful execution so so five and six let's we can we can sell those for a quick second so messaging discovery objection handling negotiating these are things that if you sold anything to anybody and put an ounce of effort into researching how to sell something these will come up again and again and again so let's break down the cerebral approach approach excuse me to the other three so discovery objection and negotiation and how do you do that with this cerebral nuance for sure we'll look with with discovery i kinda think about two things and you're going you go into a discovery call with the customer what is it that you wanna know like what do what do wanna talk about with that customer because there's like a million things you could talk about not all the things will be equally important and not all things will have an equally emotional impact on the customer so we talk about that the other thing we talk about is the science of self disclosure how do you get people to tell you things but they don't wanna tell you like when i come to you and i say scott like what's your budget for this project like even if you walk into a car dealership and the car salesperson like so scott like what's your budget all of a sudden you're the the hamster wheels cranking your brain your day i don't i i don't want shield up why they asking what are they gonna do with this information when i give into them what what should i should i low ball right and so we get into like the science of self disclosure and like how to kind of recognize the the kind of pictures that are going on inside people's heads and how to kind of approach those discussions with objection handling it's all about understanding before we even handle the objection it's understanding what what with the intent so for example the most common objection in sales of any kind is is too expensive right everything's too expensive everything was free life would be good but everything's not free unfortunately so when someone says though it's too expensive it's like if i if i ask you on a date scott and you don't wanna go with me and i say so scott hey let's what we we mad like saturday night i'm free you wanna go saturday night and you don't wanna go with me and you say oh david i'm sorry i'm i'm busy on saturday night right that's the that's the equivalent if it's too expensive thanks for tuning in if you found this valuable don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode and if you wanna dive deeper into this conversation check out the links in the description to watch the full episode see you in the next one

why is running the simplest sport it's the sport that you can do almost at any time at any moment just by yourself your successes are your own and your failures are your own i start running very seriously when i'm about fifteen and initially i do it for a love of comp petition and i do it because i'm good at it and it gives me status at high school it makes me cool he's a storyteller who turned media into mission nicholas thompson is the ceo of the atlantic and under his leadership the magazine returned to profitability earned multiple pulitzer prizes and grew its digital subscription base exponentially when you're running pain doesn't work the way we're talking most of your pain is actually just the brain sending signals because it's worried about homeostasis if you can reach that level of awareness of yourself you can actually go quite a bit faster because you can push your limits he also c founded the ata a multimedia publishing company acquired by wordpress and wrote the hawk and the dove he runs a daily video series dissect technology culture and power reaching millions and reshaping how we think about the future when your life is hard there's something about going to the track and just running to the point where you fall over that feels amazing we're all on instagram all the time we're all twitter all the time we're all constantly distracted and we fill all those empty moments with screens social interactions notifications but what's interesting is at the same time that that has happened the number of people who run marathons and the number of people who run ultra marathons to activities so nick why is running the simplest sport hey scott it's the sport that you can do almost at any time at any moment just by yourself you don't need a rack it you don't need a ball you don't need someone else you just go out you don't even necessarily need shoes though they're useful particularly if you're on rocky terrain but you have the ability to just go out there and do it whenever you want and then because it's just you you're able to observe things about yourself and understand things about yourself as you do it your successes are your own and your failures are your own you understand aging and it creates mental space that other sports don't do so my the hypothesis of my book is that if you look closely at running and you look at what it does to people's lives and you look at what it did to my life you can actually understand really deep and really meaningful things do you think that people in general have a hard time being alone with their own thoughts some people do some people don't but we all have to spend a certain amount of time alone so we all should be comfortable and you know there's this interesting phenomenon in modern life where you know we're all on instagram all the time we're all twitter all the time we're all constantly distracted and we fill all those empty moments with screens social interactions notifications but what's interesting is that at the same time that that has happened the number of people who run marathons and the number of people who run ultra marathons to skyrocketed and so there's almost an inverse relationship between how distracted we are by our phones and how much we seek sort of long distance long endurance competition that's very interesting yeah yeah i i i feel like as you describe running in such an el way and i haven't heard many people describe it that way but it's i've experienced it with a variety of different fitness things but none are as how do i describe it like when you run you get into a statement i guess it's flow state or something where you there is no distraction it is really just you and your thoughts which can be a good thing or a scary thing but it's really interesting that you notice that correlation between our thoughts being overwhelmed by social media being constantly stimulated be a constantly about bombarded with messaging and images and ideas and our need to find an outlet that gives us back our mental peace almost it gives us back our mental piece it can connects us to you know we were right we hunted ante envelopes on the you know savannah when we're you know many many you know centuries and generations ago i do think there's something very pure about running even when you it like i do it in an industrial city you know most of my running is from brooklyn manhattan over a bridge with a train so it's not like i'm off running in the fields of wild flowers so i do think that even if you do it that way there's a way it connects you to our ancestors in a way it connects you to the sky i do think they're really beautiful things that happen through it where does this sort of i don't wanna say love for running but need for being okay with your own thoughts and per through difficult times where does this inflection point or this major theme come into your life when does it first present itself i mean i start running very seriously when i'm about fifteen and initially i do it for a love of competition and i do it because i'm good at it and it gives me status at high school it makes me cool but i also very quickly also learned that it's a way to be outside be in the woods think get a deeper level process complicated things and so it's probably pretty early in my relationship with running where i realized like i didn't just want to go out and try to beat people on the track i wanted to see if i could run to the top of kin mountain right i wanted to see if i could you know get to the next ridge line and you don't do that because you want to prove anything you know now you might do it for a str segment but back then you didn't and so it was really about finding some kind of spiritual peace so i think that my my need the mental benefits that come from running started to make themselves present then but i think it was later in life when i mean the the the inspiration for the book came in a pretty important moment which was you know when i was twenty nine when at when i was thirty i ran a a fast marathon i had this long struggle to run a fast marathon i just couldn't break three hours and i finally break it and i run two forty three and i feel amazing right and then shortly thereafter after i'm diagnosed with cancer i recover let me talk more about that that process that whole thing then for the next like thirteen years i keep running and i just run two forty threes over and over again just nonstop right and two forty three is fast is cool it's great like two hundred years a great time it's objectively like it makes you the fastest person in your company right usually if you run two forty three you know fastest person on your block whatever then in my mid forties i get way faster right i run two twenty nine and now suddenly i'm like one of the best in the world in my age group you start setting records and the inspiration for the book the moment i decided to write the book came when i was trying to think through like what the heck happened like how did i get so much faster and and more importantly clearly i have this late ability why didn't i realize it while i was training my butt off in my thirties like why and i gotten faster than like makes no sense and then i had this realization oh wait it's because i had only cared about at some deep psychological level being as fast as i had been before i got sick like that was the only thing that mattered to me and so it was that realization oh wait like the things that make you fast the things that slow you down the things that determine how well you can do at the sport are buried deep inside they're not just like your cardiovascular system your legs they're deep in your mind and it was that realization that led me to start writing this book that's very interesting so you discovered that the reason why the reason why you weren't getting better is really because of i mean to put it very very simply sort of a a limiting belief or not even like a like a a baseline or a benchmark that that you thought that was what you wanted to achieve i mean this is like obviously we're talking about running and and and and sport but this is something that transcend ends almost everything you do in life totally it it like it i don't like it's there's so many multi factors and there's lots of elements but yes it was essentially like i was not i just wouldn't let myself get faster because i didn't care because all i was trying to do was prove that i was still alive and that i was like similar to the person before he had gotten sick and that seems to have them what was going on inside my head what does that what does that teach you about sort of you know aging into your prime because i think that that's something that yeah well i mean like i don't think a lot of people at at you know forty five are trying to break records i don't think that a lot and i and i always tie listen i i i am a business guy in a sports guy i i do tie a lot of sports performance and sports lessons back to business because i think that some of the mindset hurdles that you overcome to succeed in sports and teamwork working and all these different ideas they really do translate into into into business as well and just life success but i think that you're talking somebody who's forty five i don't think they're looking to you know create incredibly new milestones in their career incredibly new milestones in their in their athletic life incredibly new milestones in their relationship even though i think they should be but i think that around that ages when people are thinking okay you know i've done it i figured it out i'm good let me coast into retirement or whatever that looks like yeah a couple of things so one i had a very good model my maternal grandfather he doesn't really play a role in the book he's mentioned a couple sentences you know worked until he was eighty three years old at the highest level of us government right like and he just got fired all the time you know get fired by almost seven out of eleven us presidents and then just would work his way back right so i had a pretty good role model that said you don't stop you don't give up you don't go like you don't say okay at fifty five i'm gonna retire or like forty i'm gonna stop running you just keep going until until the end you know he was playing tennis with me when he was ninety years old put a little like chair out on the court and you would like sit down between points so that's you know that's one element of it another element is i think the lesson that i learned there are forces that slow you down as you age right it is inevitable and you know my i don't know less lean muscle mass than i had when i was twenty eight years old i have a you know lower maximal heart rate right i have they're all kinds of like i have a lower v two max there all kinds of like physiological things that un make me floor that said i also have wisdom right i've learned things about training that i didn't know before i have learned actually forms of endurance through my professional life that are useful for running so you have a bunch of forces pushing you backwards you have a few forces pushing you forward and so i'm never gonna even if i devoted my whole life to run and i'm not gonna run two twenty or two nineteen but i can you know keep i can keep pushing back against the decline declining to be better i had scrubs to my mother she was like oh my god my reflex are just getting worse and worse you know it's like every day and my reflex are worse and i was like mom you're that doesn't have to be the case like let's go out on the porch and i'm gonna throw you tennis i'm like sort toss them to the right toss them to the left i'm gonna bounce them and you're gonna catch them and throw them back to me and like we went and did she's like my reflex are getting better and you're like yeah you know you can like there are forces that push us in one you know towards decay and you can push back you know not at everything but at what you want you know we're not gonna live forever you know i'm probably gonna die at roughly the same manager is gonna die out if i didn't do all this running but i'm glad that i haven't like given in to the forces of the decline at least not yet survey monkey is a success story partner now look we get it you can hardly go anywhere or do anything these days without hearing about ai this or ai that and if you're like most people when it comes to ai you're impressed but you have a few concerns but what if ai was used not as a tool to replace people but as a way to help understand people better ai from survey monkey is designed to do just that i'm crafting the perfect survey which is harder than you might think to analysis that digs deep binds patterns and services trends quickly survey powerful suite of ai capabilities makes it faster and easier than ever before to get insight from real people helping you make confident decisions 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matters so get your ops in order get your business running smoothly so you can scale and you can really build something meaningful stop letting all this chaos steal all of your energy and listen to the op authority wherever you get your podcasts you right about running with awareness not just discipline explain what that means what's the difference yeah so when you're running this is important it gets into like a little bit of it's almost spiritual stuff but you have to the trick one of the tricks in running fast one of the most important things and so the lesson than i think applies across life pain doesn't work the way we're taught or the way we think that it when we're young and when i started running i thought that the reason i hurt when i ran was because my muscles were inflamed or you know something was going wrong with my nervous system or like i i used to think there's like there's lactic acid buildup right and the lactic acid buildup is what makes you hurt boom no it's not there is lactic acid buildup but that's not what makes you hurt most of your pain is actually just the brain sending signals because it's worried about home and so your brain is you know sending signals through the rest of your body to try to get you to slow down because it i think doesn't think it can maintain the pace you're running for the distance you wanna run so when i run a marathon or anyone runs a marathon when you get all these weird pains right and you're like three miles in your shoulder will start to hurt right and on a regular day your shoulder not gonna hurt three miles in a run because there's nothing going on with your shoulder right like it's it's just there right it barely moves but your brain is like it's worried about running twenty six point two miles on this particular day and it's worried you've taken it out too fast so it's trying to get you slow down and so it's looking for weak points and there all kinds of studies that show this and so your brain is running all these calculations how hot is it like how long is this gonna take how heal is the course how hard i work what is my part rate and it's measuring all these factors and it's like a thermostat and then if those factors kind of exceeded level it like sends a pain signal out and so when you're running you're trying to understand this and you're trying to understand these different pain signals and you're trying to understand like isn't this just something i can ignore this is like this thing in my shoulder or is it an actual pain signal is it like i've actually injured my achilles right so i was running this past saturday and let me start to go wrong on my ham right now i like okay this like a real thing or is it just worried that i'm trying to run a twenty mile run and that is like a really profound and deep body awareness that if you can reach and not that i've reached perfection but if i've read i am at a much deeper understanding in my body than i was twenty years ago ten years ago thirty years ago if you can reach that level of awareness of of yourself you can actually go quite a bit faster because you can push your limits in part by sort of it's like using your brain it i call it plain hide and seek with your brain right but the only thing i have to use your brain to play hide ahead and see with your brain but you can kind of convince yourself to go faster they're obviously physical limits like it's not like the perfect buddhist can run a one minute mile but you know you can still do better if you have a deeper understanding you actually set records for men forty five and up in a fifty k race like this is not just a casual i go for a run on a sunday morning was that done purposefully did you say i never want to be a hundred percent my work is that benefited your work is what's the relationship between this sort of the two conflicting identities well it could be a it could be a strength it could be a weakness i mean i think that like my whole life and if you look at different moments and you look at people who have evaluated me you know the people who like me and the people who are impressed by me and we i think i'm doing a good job are always like you know nick does so many things right and the people who kinda think i'm a sc are like nick's distracted right and it's a theme that goes through like my academic life my twenties my thirties my forties and you know they're there are there are trade offs when you have a life where you have a bunch of things you do there are moments where your goals end up tension with each other what i've tried to do is to make the life work and to make it so nobody the atlantic everything i'm slack on the job because of my running right i run to and from the office takes about them at the same amount of time as going on the subway i'm often listening to podcast i'm gonna work out obviously i'm knox i'm trying to cultivate awareness right i'm using running as a way that can help my job they're things i learn running that really helped my job or things from my job that helped my running so i've been able to build it into my life so they don't think any i don't think anybody at the atlantic whatever say i shi on responsibilities you know i think they mostly like and nick has this like hobby that he's able to keep contained and you know one of the things about running is that you can do it at an elite level without putting that much time in right you you know you spend i spend what eight hours a week running like it's a lot but like you could spend eight hours week we watching netflix hubspot is a success story partner now think about listening to this podcast right now you're probably multitasking you're probably catching seventy to eighty percent of what we're talking about but let's flip that and imagine you're only catching twenty percent that'd be crazy right it's really not a good use of your time if you only remember twenty percent of what we're talking about but most businesses most 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your life and i feel like a portion of you not a hundred percent but a portion of you is obsessed and that's what allowed that's what's allowed you to get to where you are what is your thoughts on obsession with running with performance with work with everything you've done i'm like that's a good question because obsession is you know i'm it's hard to be obsessive about it's hard to be like a obsessive p right and so my whole life i've never really focused in on one thing to the exclusion of others but i am very driven and very focused and i care a ton about doing well in my job i care a ton about running fast and i care a ton about being a good father in my three boys and a good husband to my wife i think obsession i think sort of like a modulate obsession where you like really care passionately and you like you it's just whatever the goal is right so the most important goal in my life right besides being a good father good husband the most important goal is figuring out a business model so this amazing publication founded by ralph walter emerson and harriet s can thrive for generations to come and play a role in helping american democracy in helping america like existence a nation right that's my objective right i don't write the stories i don't edit the stories my job is to find the business model and i am obsessed by that i think about it all the time right and it's in the back of my head looks should we are we doing are we doing this well or enough can we hit this metric right so in a way i am like profoundly obsessed about that but not to the extent that it prevents me from spend a bunch of time running no i think i i like that it's strategically obsessed yeah strategically obsessed there you go that that's that there you go i'm strategically obsessed when you get cancer at a young age you i mean to a degree you're facing mortality how does that change your relationship with running your hobbies your past times your family work like what does this do what what is the thoughts that go through your head when you do get cancer at a young age well so one of the thoughts so i got it when i was thirty you do suddenly you just you question who you are and what you are because you're like wait if i die what have i have i done anything have i left anything have i you know the world would be identical without me or at least if you're thirty and you're like i was at thirty right i mean if you're some super accomplished twenty nine year olds maybe different but it it makes you wonder your place in the world it makes you think more about the people who truly love you you go through this moment and you also you get to see how people react and you get a better sense of who truly loves you and who truly matters in your life and then if you're lucky and you get through it as i did you take life more seriously and you you have you have post traumatic growth you know you have this thing you can hold on to right you've been to the pre but you've survived and you you care more about certain things and you care less about other things and so right you may care more about trying to figure out your place in the world to journalism i mean you can maybe care less about whether the red sox when the a east right and so you just sort of like your your shift of priorities and your your way you spend your time i think changes there have been studies that have shown that people who get cancer and survive it end up with big they they end up becoming more religious they end up become becoming closer to their family members they end becoming closer to their deep friends they end up probably having fewer weak social connections and they end up more focused right like there's a kind of they do a whole bunch of things that are very solitary for the mental health and they i think they also spend more time you know outside like thinking about important things like you kind of like remove trivia and add important stuff into your mind and you know there been lots of states that show that it's not true for everybody and you do have to obviously survive it and come out the other side completely intact right and you can come out with all kinds of different outcomes but you know when i look at my life there a lot of things that didn't go right in my twenties it went right in my thirties of you know running it's a very obvious one but they're are all kinds of them and part of it was having had this really dark and scary experience with you know the thyroid cancer which is you know if you're gonna get cancer it's the the cancer you wanna get a very high survival rate i was very young there wasn't you know i was terrified and thought i was gonna die but there was no moment where like a rational doctor thought i was gonna die but you come to the other side and you're a you're a different more serious more focused person there was one line in your book it it was along the lines of when were teenagers were pulled by instinct now my emotions were those of an older man a steady rain that formed a river pushing relentlessly forward so this sort of it's just very well very well written and beautifully worded sort of evolution of a person and was that cancer that brought you through that evolution it was a couple things i mean that line in the book i was comparing two different races and they're both like very emotional races so the first was when i was eighteen years old we're seventeen years old and it was the new england championships and it was the three thousand meter race and it was for the new england title and it was both for the individual and for the team title and my race the three thousand was the last race and so it's me against my arch arrival if i win we have a good shot i win in the title if i lose we have no shot so i have to win and i go out like fall behind i get depressed he gets ahead and then i catch him right and then it's just this manic sprint and so you know what i love about those memories is that you can just like when you're running a sprint on a track you can just let your emotions out you can you can channel every element of energy you have into like forward propulsion and i don't think i've ever felt quite like i felt you know those last two hundred meters were neck and neck we're just you know we're going back and forth you know like i really like i hated the guy he he insulted me on the track like three weeks before the only person beating me all season it was like unfair he was a graduate you know like just i was like i wanted to beat the guy and so we're going at it i passed and i catch which is amazing and then i lose and he wins and so i was describing the emotions of that race and what it feels like to give it all into like be a young man and be like screaming inside yourself and moving on in the lane two which amazingly in track is called the lane of high hopes which is so cool so that was the first race and then the second race is the fifty k in oregon where i set the american record where you know in that first race i crossed the finish line and i'm blackout like i don't even know i've lost when i crossed the finish line it's so close i think i might have lost but who knows and then it's like then in the fifty k it's like i remember the end where i can see the finish line and i know i'm gonna break and record and they've pulled out the tape and i run through and the video is kind of amazing right and you watch and i go through and i break the tape and i look i look good and then and i remember feeling good and then i like topple over you know if like i've clearly like completely maxed myself to the exact you know it's like you know i don't know if you prone to the gas station and there's like one drop of gas in the tank and that was like what i had done in that race but i had done it like in sort of a steady smooth way as opposed to that first race where i'd lost by the way i will say that the the guy who beat me in that race when i was at seventeen he read an article i wrote about running and sent me an email and said it he loved it was so great to read about it and like it had inspire him to get out and play more squash and i now i'm i'm now friends with him that's so far the arch nemesis no but i think that so yes you're right it wasn't just cancer but it was like this it was just life just turning i mean a it's a lot of things right there's a lot of changes happen so i think i really like you there there's sort of four things that happen at that time period there's you know one i overcome my cancer too i start having children right so have three boys and there they appear in the years after i get healthy third i write a book and i write a book about my maternal grandfather who i mentioned who is this just you know phenomenal diplomat but also just a force of nature and a model i write a book it's the history of the cold war based on his rivalry reading in george ken and then the fourth is that i have this very intense relationship with my father and i watch is very driven man you know kind of fall off into alcoholism then despair and bankruptcy and i i like have a counter example right like if you let things slip this is what happens right and that sort of you i start to really process that so all of those things are happening at the same time in my life that's a lot that's a lot a lot one last thought on this because i think it's a useful idea and i think can help people that are going through difficult things god forbid hopefully nobody although probability dictates people who are listening this are going through cancer some sort of cancer care but just negative negative moments in people's lives in general you found a lot of relief in running to really take your mind away from the cancer or but the the the point is running physical activity it gave you something that would take your mind away from anything negative like i'm i'm assuming you've used it to escape a lot of you know really mentally exhausting and stressful situations over your life talk to me about what people should what people should know about running just when they're going through something hopefully not cancer but if it's cancer or anything else like what's the what's the thing that running gives you that nothing else really does you know i don't know i mean for i don't know if for other people it gives you something that nothing else can give you but there there are a couple of things that can happen with running so one it allows you you know sometimes when you're running what you're doing is you're actually seeking the pain right you're like you're going out there and because things are hard in your life you're just like you want the opportunity to kinda get into ultra runners called the pain cave but you wanna get into like just a point of there's something when your life is hard there's something about going to the track and just run into the point where you fall over that feels amazing right so that's one use right i don't use it that much that's more kinda like the young person's thing you know but that that that was kind of like what you know if i had like broke up with the a girl when i was young i would like just go run hard right and like you know sometimes like bringing pain on can process the other pain what i use running for now is kind of the opposite it's almost like spiritual escape like okay i'm gonna go and i'm gonna run and i'm gonna feel this different thing and i'm gonna be out in the universe and it's gonna be closer to meditation right and i'm gonna go make something hard happens in my life now i just go out and i go run in the woods right and i don't run hard i don't necessarily run long but i go and it's a way of like releasing my mind and freeing myself and so i think people can reach that mental state you know that kind of dis association you can reach it through multiple ways now you can go for a walk right you can you know go bird watching right like there are different ways of kind of escaping and going maybe you can meditate it maybe you can sit quietly in a chair but for me it's running that gets me to that state that's you know really helpful the hubspot podcast network is a success story partner now a quick cast recommendation i've been listening to truth lies and work they're in the house hubspot podcast network just like success story it's this husband and wife team a and lia elliott they break down why people actually do what they do at work so if you have a business if you manage people if you have to hire people at any point you have to listen to their show i just listened to an episode on why good employees suddenly quit that's an issue that we all have and it totally clicked for me one of the reasons i explained is why it's not usually about the money it's about all these little promises that we as founders entrepreneurs managers leaders we break without realizing it like when you tell someone you just hired they're gonna learn all these new skills but you just keep giving them the same tasks over an over and over again it made me realize that i probably lost a lot of good people for dumb reasons that i never noticed and hiring is one of the most important things you can figure out so if you manage people or if you just wanna understand what makes your coworkers tick it's worth checking out listen the truth lies and work wherever you get your podcast chip station is a success story partner you know what separates successful online businesses from literally everyone else it's not just having great products it's delivering an amazing shipping experience that keeps customers coming back all of my friends that run the biggest e commerce companies they use ships station and it has completely transformed how they handle orders they save thousands on shipping costs thanks to their rate chopper tool that finds the best discounts and what makes ships station brilliant you never need to upgrade 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da modi who's literally shaping the future of artificial intelligence here's what makes inbound special it's not just the great keynote you're gonna dive into breakout sessions where you can immediately implement what you learn and plus san francisco legendary startup up ecosystem provides the perfect backdrop from networking with all these great entrepreneurs decision makers industry leaders peers who are actively shaping the future of business from september third to fifth at the mo center you're gonna be surrounded by forward thinking professionals who turn insights and ideas into breakthroughs don't just watch the future unfold be part of creating it is it inbound dot com slash register to get your ticket today talk to me about your relationship with your father because obviously he's in the title of your book so that was something that was very important it shaped a part of your life a big portion of your life what was your relationship like with him he's a very complicated guy but my relationship with him was always we had a very strong relationship we emailed you know more or less every day throughout his life he passed away seven years ago but he's a very complicated guy where he grows up and he grows up in kind of a tough family where he's afraid of his father he grows up in oklahoma and his father they're on a native american reservation his father's president of the university there and my dad just doesn't fit in doesn't have any self confidence and so he kind of escapes he like learns about the school called andover applies gets a scholarship and then it's this just like rocket ship trajectory for the next ten years right where he goes to andover is an out cast figures it out goes to stanford wins a rhodes scholarship you know dean students you know i find these recommendation letters where they're like scott thompson the best student we've had since herbert hoover right john f kennedy says this guy is gonna be president runs every political organization he's just a d goes to oxford you know with his rhodes scholarship comes back with his fill mar my mother who is the you know glamour daughter of this important political figure and so my dad's like just you know the guy's gonna be certainly is gonna be senator right but then he doesn't really like it never gets on track professionally and you know from the time he mar my mother where he would have been me to twenty old little twenty seven years old until he's forty he's in kind of a rut he starts to drink too much becomes alcoholic he then you know if he can't really get himself going professionally can't really write an important book so it's stuck in all these sort of political battles inside the faculty where he's wears a professor he then finally like starts to make it in the late seventies and he becomes kind of a well known public intellectual ronald reagan gets elected and he's a top choice to run the policy planning staff which is a great job he doesn't get it but it's right then that he realizes realizes he's gay and you know it's something he'd thought about maybe we you know he as it's unclear exactly when he realized that he had tendencies he's clearly bisexual to some degree but that were he was his male tendencies were stronger and so then he leaves my mother he you know moved to dc and then he just unravel and he you know he starts to he would he would there would be hundreds of men we would you know would come to our house and he would you know i said he didn't spend a that alone for twenty years and he is you know there many of them are completely inappropriate right some of them are like violence some of them are thieves some of them are you know yeah i don't know just kind of like em souls right like they're not the people that scott thompson should be with there's some some like but mostly like they're not really the right people for him to be with and so then he like the next thirty years of his life he's a loving father he's fully supportive of me fully devoted to me he's an amazing man to talk to right the guy is always so smart interesting and well read and he's like he's a great person to have a parties but it's just chaos right and he like falls behind on his taxes he makes a these bad real estate deals he ends something like thousands of court cases and so maybe hundreds of court cases he eventually leads to asia he can't handle it america anymore and then by the end he's you just running this hotel in bali that is it really a hotel or is it just like people come and sleep with the male gardeners and you know it's a pretty it's a pretty dramatic story of rise and fall from like this little kid in oklahoma the you know halls of washington to the rice patties you know and then eventually dies in bat tonga philippines so it's a it's a it's a the other reason i wrote this book is because my dad's life story whether there's a lesson in and or not a lesson and it's interesting right like if i tell people that like they're like what is your dad do and they sort of assume your my dad has a kind of a different story than way he does so you know it's is it interesting guy but what's important what's most important is that he was completely devoted to me he loved me and even though he like threatened to kill himself to like get a couple hundred bucks from me or you know all kinds of like blackmail and craziness you know order prostitutes to like into my apartment there's like there's and there's even worse things that i don't put in the book despite all that like we maintain our relationship and you know we stay in touch and we have a loving father on relationships till the very end is there is there a lesson is there a lesson to me one of the lessons was don't get knocked off track and if you do get knocked off thought track and you do start to like lose yourself confidence and you do find yourself you know sort of letting slip the things you care about get it back like it seemed like what happened with my father was the way he cope with his drinking problem was to drink more and the way he cope with having drunk more was to drink more and you what you wanna do is the opposite you wanna like sort of cultivate a little bit of self awareness he was a very interesting man and that he had you know such incredible ability to view the strengths and weaknesses of other people and could see through you and could you know he wrote me a letter when i was twenty one that you know fore saw a huge portion of my life it's one the most inc letters that i've ever received and how well did he know me like i spent two weeks a year with him sometime time with him on weekends i read it that just recently i was like oh my god this man he was but he his own self awareness yeah i mean he you know what he would say is you know that like his sexuality that he came of age a wrong time that it was really hard to be had been born gay in nineteen forty two right if you're born gay in nineteen eighty two you can come out of the closet if you're born gay in nineteen twenty two you to stay in it and so he was born gay in nineteen forty two and then came out you know in during the middle of the age crisis he was as he mentioned he was diagnosed as hiv positive that turned out to be an incorrect diagnosis he would say that he you know just life life gave him life gave him a a dna a dna imposed limit and because of his sexuality he couldn't have succeeded professionally the way he wanted to like washington would not have allowed an openly gay man to succeed and once he realized he was gay he could not you know control it and because he hadn't been able to like be a young man exploring his sexuality when he's a teenager he had to compensate by you know dating this endless parade of you know nineteen year old guys he met on man jam like that's what he would say which is not i think you know fully persuasive but that was his argument no i i think that there's a lot of turmoil there for obviously but i wonder if and and you probably know you you probably thought of this at least once or twice before if even though it was a it was a good relationship and there was a certain degree of chaos in the relationship but even though it was a good relationship you're saying it was a good relationship did it you you you kind of ended up being complete one eighty like a complete opposite like you when when things don't go right you make sure that you don't lean into the wrong you find a way to correct it like i see you was actually a very disciplined person as somebody who like leans into the hard things as opposed to sort of giving way to the easier things i i think that i don't know if that's part of what shaped who you are i think for sure that there's something that comes from our parents at definitely at least imprint on us to a degree but you seem to be a complete opposite of that well it to the extent i am it's deliberate right it's like you my sister i have two sisters oldest sister a younger sister we've all talked about like our fear of becoming like him and the what we do to try to not become like him but on the other hand like i am quite similar to him in other ways you know i you know he was this like bundle of energy who was always doing lots of stuff you know people like people his old friends always say i remind i remind them with him square is a success story partner now there's his coffee shop in my neighborhood that just started as his tiny little corner spot now they've got three locations they're selling online they've even added some food so what i love is that no matter which location i go to whether i'm grabbing my morning coffee i'm picking up lunch everything just works smoothly be ordering the payments the loyalty points it all syncs up perfectly and that is the power of square and honestly it's why i keep going back every business has different goals and square the platform that supports them all whether you're opening new 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that's fifty percent off your first year at monarch money dot com with code success what what makes something so simple and we did touch on this but go go a level deeper please makes something so simple becomes so profound and and such a benefit to your life yeah i think it just it opens up levels of thought and it opens up levels of experience that you know are pretty hard to open up one of the things i did in the book is i you know both tell my story and what running is done for me but i was tell the stories of five other people who have struggled with really hard things in life and use running to cope with them and you know the first maybe just tell her story maybe they'll tell to of them the first is this woman named bobby gibbs and they're all people who've have intersect with my life you she's the mother of a friend of mine and she you know grows up and she's just she's wired differently and she really doesn't she just can't stand the role that women are supposed to play in you know nineteen fifties nineteen sixties america like can't have a credit you can't have a job you just gotta be a wife she just can't stand it and the way she cope with it is she's like you know what i'm gonna do my own thing and so she goes off and she runs across the country you know not directly across her she is in a van but she like gets in the van and she'll drive starts in boston and drives to the you know berkshire shares and goes go every night she'll go and run like i don't know for four or five hours you know and then sleep in the ground and like look at the stars and look at the sky and she goes across the entire country and goes to you know it goes to san francisco and then she's like you know i kinda love this running thing and then she goes answers this hundred mile race and vermont and she you was able to run with the horses here in sixty six miles in two days and she's just like running gives her this way of being a spiritual being out in the world then nothing else does and helps her like escape these feelings so then she's was like you know what i'm gonna run the boston marathon and so her she grew up so she sends a letter and the working organizers are like sorry women are incapable of running the boston marathon it was this like belief right i the women weren't able to run i camera a second i don't nineteen sixty six really yeah it's crazy women like women didn't run distance races at the olympics until i the seventies eighties like it's it's absurd wow i i didn't know that that's insane yeah it's wild and so bobby gets this letter back and it's like women are incapable sorry you can't run boston marathon she's like we well i just ran sixty six miles with horses and so she runs it she like puts on her brother's sweatshirt and like sneaks in the bushes and then just goes out and runs a box of marathon and she runs it in like three hours and twenty minutes or something and it's this she's the first woman to run it and so it's a wonderful story about running helping this person you know find her role and civil rights find her role and you know bringing freedom bringing a equality and it's just a beautiful story there you know the other five characters i mentioned one of those guy michael west and so he lives on this tiny island thirty people out in off the coast of maine and there's nothing to do because it's a tiny island you know eating your powdered milk and you staying inside and so everybody on the island becomes a runner right and there's one two mile road and he'll run like a hundred miles a week back and forth in two mile road and they end up having like population of thirty seven of them runs sub three hour marathons at one point and so he becomes this great runner and the one he runs this road race in northeast harbor which is a town on the mainland and he wins it your one year my father runs it so nineteen eighty one i think then thirty years later my son runs the race so i'm running the race my son runs the race and i'm watching my son and he's coming you know my left and i've i've finished i've gone back to go find my kid and there's this guy right with who's like arms are fl all over the track and i'm running with his buddy mine as a cop i'm like he's like okay it's like hey it's michael west and so what happened what had happened to west is he'd got parkinson's and so he had gotten parkinson's in his like forties this like runner carpenter strong guy built up all the houses on the island and he'd had to learn how to run with it like he loved running it was the thing he did and at first he was embarrassed and then he learns how to like tie his hands behind his back so that they don't fl too much when he runs and he runs he's like qualifies boston marathon times with parkinson's he sets a world record for fast marathon park he's incredible and and so i spent a lot of time interviewing him about how he cope with like using running as a way to deal with you know i had to deal with the decline i had to do with cancer i had to do a fear he he gets a disease from which there's no return you know and he gets it at forty nine and he knows that the rest of his life it's just gonna get you know harder and harder but he wants to keep running because he loves it and it's a story about what he learned about competition what he learned about running so i tell those two stories there's others in the books that are like it but the point is there's something about this sport and the fact that you can do it like you can't play tennis if few have parkinson's right you can't like you can just go out and train and do it you know you can sneak through the bushes and get into the boston marathon course right because it's just you and it's just your shoes there's something about the freedom and the self determination that come from the sport that allow you to really reach deep places and do important things for somebody who is like a high performing individual what from work helps them with the running what from what what from running excuse me helps them with their work yeah i think that concentration is really it's something that really trends i mean you mentioned earlier that there a bunch of habits right like you eat well you sleep well you know you learn how to like modulate your energy levels like there's a bunch of like you develop this kinda stoic right i'm gonna go run today i'm gonna work today i'm gonna run i'm gonna work today right like you develop this confidence in like building up your skill step by step rick by brick run by run right you learn like the power of consistent effort you learn that through both but i also think that concentration really does come you know i've learned through running how to focus and i've learned through work how to focus and i think the two feed each other one last question about running you've run through times square at midnight you've been chased by cows and le you've dissipate like a thousand no trespassing signs just what was the most insane running story that you have not somebody else but something that you've dealt with you mean like the weirdest run or like the most oh that's a good quote you take it at however you want it give me the weirdest and give me the best whatever this one one of the points i'm making in that chapter is like just fine time to run night and you just run wherever you are actually i'll say that i say like this is actually an important one and this is this is something didn't even know this it happened until i was writing the book there was a time where i went to my my then girlfriend's house and she know she become my wife but it's the first time like meeting her parents and i go there and we have a big dinner i think they're out they living in berkeley and i don't maybe i drink some wine we have a good time maybe we all watch a movie together who knows and then it's like eleven o'clock and i'm like okay i'm going running and because i hadn't gone running that day and i leave and my future mother law's says to my future wife like wait what's wrong with that guy and my wife is like what you don't get is that he enjoys it and so there been a lot of situations like that where i just go and run in places have you know i run i like what's coming to mind as i remember once for some reason like i came out all these world i remember running like a ten mile run a a small parking lot in las vegas i can't remember why i had to do it but it was like the only place i could run that particular day you know and you just there's was actually action i remember i was i ran out during there is a time when i was up in the cats skills and i couldn't leave my kids but i had to do it run so i just like ran around the house which is like pretty small by i ran like ten miles like in a little of like tiny loops around the house you just figure out what to do i had another time running in vegas i know why i always was happens in vegas where i was like giving a speech and it was one of those things where i like show up and actually i guess i i have a whole bunch of vegas stories once i met a friend's bachelor party like he's going up the elevator with a bunch of people he's met at the you know at the club i'm coming down to go running and it's like the rest of the bachelor of the party's going up and i'm going out then there's another time where i'm in vegas and i've like forgotten to bring a t shirt and but i'm only there for like three hours and i have like fifteen minutes when i can run between meetings and so i had like a winter coat because i've been in new york and so it's like eighty degrees and i'm in shorts and a winter coat running in las vegas anyway so the the point being like i just love to run and we'll do it wherever i can what do you want what do you want if you're gonna pass on a lesson about running to your to your three boys what would that lesson be the lesson that i hope i've passed and i don't know is that they see they can't really understand my work right and they can't i mean now they can they're seventeen fifteen and eleven but like when they were little they couldn't and they didn't like quite know what i did they get some sense of it they don't really know what it means but they can see the effort right and they can see the discipline and they can see the consistency and they can see that it's like they can learn some of the lessons from running about resilience perseverance dedication building things up steadily and that's what i hope they get and i you know the in a way i like my eldest son doesn't run but he works so hard right he works so hard at to school working and he works so hard as debate tournaments right and he you know i he's clearly whether he's learned it from watching me run or watching me work or watching my wife who knows but like he's pick it up the other two boys like they both run and they do it really well you know i this one last thought i think it's like a lesson that i'm picking up from you like running you i mean like you you say running connected you to your father but you also use it as an escape when things are difficult you can use it to focus on something or you can use it for meditation to get your head out of work like it's just it's like this tool really that's that's how i see it it's this tool that you can apply it in different ways just to improve your life and it's such like a multifaceted diverse tool yeah yeah it's definitely that that's a very good way to put it because you can do you know there's no one thing i do when i run i seek different things when i run i seek meditation i seek so an intense focus i sent sometimes seek association sometimes i'm running into like away from things sometimes we're running toward things there's a lot you can do with it and i think it's beautiful because i think that we keep trying to add more complexity into our lives with routines and all these different things and all these different fitness things and health things and and they're all good to a degree but i think that sometimes simple just wins and that's that's really what it is so the book the running ground of father a son in the simplest of sports that is available october twenty eighth so we'll make sure this podcast goes up around the exact same time when this is live and you can get that book anywhere you get your podcasts if people were going to just take it home if somebody wanted to pick up this book what do you hope they would get from it what's the one lesson or the one idea that you really wanna drive home i mean the best thing that happens is when people who don't run read it and then say they went running and i happened a couple times just as i would send out drafts to friends i really love that and they're like you know i like i now can think more deeply about the sport and i wanna go do it and i love that response i love that i think it's just like a leading indicator to a picking it running like a leading indicator to a better happier healthier life last question i ask everybody you kind of already you're you already told me what lesson you wanna pass over to your kids through running but just a lesson that after going through everything in your life you would like to tell your younger self your twenty year old self what's that one lesson that was really important to you that you think would help that younger version keep at it you know i think i spent too much time i didn't understand then this thing i'm i really believe that if you do your best every day good things happen right and like you don't see it right you don't see yourself getting better you don't see it improving nothing's linear in life but if you keep at it you'll get there and one of the problems i had psychologically in my twenties is that i sort of wanted of the world in a minute you know and i like i just sort of assumed that things would happen really quickly and like whatever success i saw or whatever accomplishments or whatever like i thought i'd be able to like write really great stories as a journalist and you can't like it's you have to learn so much and it takes a long time and i didn't quite appreciate the benefits of like compound interest the compound interest of daily work and it took me a while to realize that and because of that i sort of would stop and start and i made like a bunch of sort of dumb professional mistakes in my twenties and pretty off track and i think it's because i didn't understand that i didn't have the confidence i understand that if you keep at it and if you do your best and if you treat people well and you know your kind and generous and thoughtful and work hard like it will stuff will like not always and there's all kinds of biases and injustices in the world but you know things will work out better claude is a success story partner now as a podcast my worst nightmare used to be going into an interview under unprepared now claude has completely changed my prep game and if you 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